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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-25

redsquirrel said:
This is tin-foil hat stuff. The Observer has been sold off for financial reasons and the idea that the Guardian offices are full of Tankies is absurd and without any sort of basis. Who are these Tankies? Viner?

The last "Tankie" that I can think of with a regular column at the Guardian was David Aaronovitch and he left in 2005.
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David Aaronovich a tankie? He must have changed a lot in 20 years.
 
CH1 said:
Has there been a split in Guardian Media Group?
I mean has the Observer been sold off because it's too pro-Ukraine,, and now the residual Tankies can run their sort of stories in the purified Guardian?
I had been thinking of cancelling my Guardian DD - and your serial choice of stories makes this more likely.
Like the Guardian is tenting towards nu-RT - drip drip. II don't want to suppress the truth - but neither do I want Putinism with my cornflakes!
Ukraine is in a war for fuck's sake. Buildings constantly destroyed,, power grid off a lot of the time, civilians killed - and the Guardian expects people to be invited to fight - if they want to!
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They published something vaguely pro-Ukraine a week or so ago Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-25 and it made their most avid fan here quite perplexed.
 
Ax^ said:
the mental gymnastics that will happen on here when Putin reneges on the next ceasefire is going to be something to watch ....
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As said over and over a peace deal will inevitably include a security clause that if the deal is broken Ukraine will have defenders from foreign states legitimised (in a way they are not legitimised at present, hence the NATO dalliance around arms) - and no doubt that security includes the UK. So if Russia reneges and breaks a peace deal the UK will go to war.

Starmer just said in his 100 year pact that the UK would work with all its allies to ensure that any deal ending the war would be strong enough to "guarantee Ukraine's security" and "deter any future aggression."
 
The39thStep said:
Absolutely. Your record on here is in no danger.
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I e never defended north Korea on here that would be the russian fanciers on this thread as you well known

from your last attempt at trolling are you going to proved updates on Ukraine from Matt Gaetz and MGT as of trump return to the white house
 
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CH1 said:
David Aaronovich a tankie? He must have changed a lot in 20 years.
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He was a eurocommunist when he appeared on University Challenge
While at Manchester, Aaronovitch was a member of the 1975 University Challengeteam that lost in the first round after answering most questions with the name of a Marxist ("Trotsky", "Lenin", "Karl Marx" or "Che Guevara"). The tactics were a protest against the fact that the University of Oxford and Cambridge University were allowed to enter each of their colleges into the contest as a separate team, even though the colleges were not universities in themselves.
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(I'm not sure if he was officially a member of the GPGB or just a fellow traveller, I thought the former but from a quick web search it may not be the case)
 
ska invita said:
As said over and over a peace deal will inevitably include a security clause that if the deal is broken Ukraine will have defenders from foreign states legitimised (in a way they are not legitimised at present, hence the NATO dalliance around arms) - and no doubt that security includes the UK. So if Russia reneges and breaks a peace deal the UK will go to war.

Starmer just said in his 100 year pact that the UK would work with all its allies to ensure that any deal ending the war would be strong enough to "guarantee Ukraine's security" and "deter any future aggression."
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I know you come from an absolutist no-war stance, and fully respect that, but what you suggest isn't so mad. Vlad and whoever follows him knows that a ruck with the UK and whoever else comes along for a scrap will not be funtimes. The Russian military has been exposed, it's fucking rubbish, all that might and we're nearly in to the forth year and they've managed to take <20% of their much smaller neighbour.

Nuclear threat, Nuclear threat etc. Just do it, if you acutally can, which you know you can't, but even if you could the one country that would no longer exist, the only single one, Russia.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
I know you come from an absolutist no-war stance, and fully respect that, but what you suggest isn't so mad. Vlad and whoever follows him knows that a ruck with the UK and whoever else comes along for a scrap will not be funtimes. The Russian military has been exposed, it's fucking rubbish, all that might and we're nearly in to the forth year and they've managed to take <20% of their much smaller neighbour.

Nuclear threat, Nuclear threat etc. Just do it, if you acutally can, which you know you can't, but even if you could the one country that would no longer exist, the only single one, Russia.
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Maximalist madness.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
I know you come from an absolutist no-war stance, and fully respect that, but what you suggest isn't so mad. Vlad and whoever follows him knows that a ruck with the UK and whoever else comes along for a scrap will not be funtimes. The Russian military has been exposed, it's fucking rubbish, all that might and we're nearly in to the forth year and they've managed to take <20% of their much smaller neighbour.

Nuclear threat, Nuclear threat etc. Just do it, if you acutally can, which you know you can't, but even if you could the one country that would no longer exist, the only single one, Russia.
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Yes I feel we all need to work towards ending all war in whatever way we can, but regarding this coming peace deal, this isnt my personal wish or idea, this was reported as the nature of the deal that Boris Johnson is alleged to have scuppered (as was instead keen to carry on the opportunity to "press" Putin.)

I would expect many NATO countries guaranteeing Ukraine's security - it will be Ukraine joining defacto NATO without actually having to join.
 
redsquirrel said:
He was a eurocommunist when he appeared on University Challenge

(I'm not sure if he was officially a member of the GPGB or just a fellow traveller, I thought the former but from a quick web search it may not be the case)
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Surely being a Eurocommunist in 1975 was like being a member of the SDP?
Anyway glad to see he was at Manchester.
Had he been at UMIST like me, he would not doubt have been WRP!
 
CH1 said:
Surely being a Eurocommunist in 1975 was like being a member of the SDP?
Anyway glad to see he was at Manchester.
Had he been at UMIST like me, he would not doubt have been WRP!
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Do you have any idea abut the politics of these groups? Eurocommunists were a tendency within/adjacent to various Communist parties.
 
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CH1 said:
Has there been a split in Guardian Media Group?
I mean has the Observer been sold off because it's too pro-Ukraine,, and now the residual Tankies can run their sort of stories in the purified Guardian?
I had been thinking of cancelling my Guardian DD - and your serial choice of stories makes this more likely.
Like the Guardian is tenting towards nu-RT - drip drip. II don't want to suppress the truth - but neither do I want Putinism with my cornflakes!
Ukraine is in a war for fuck's sake. Buildings constantly destroyed,, power grid off a lot of the time, civilians killed - and the Guardian expects people to be invited to fight - if they want to!
Click to expand...

If Ukrainian men need to be press-ganged off the street, then one wonders what exactly is being defended by fighting this war. If the people don't want to fight, then what is being defended apart from the position of the ruling regime?
 
Mark Sloan said:
If Ukrainian men need to be press-ganged off the street, then one wonders what exactly is being defended by fighting this war. If the people don't want to fight, then what is being defended apart from the position of the ruling regime?
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You think the Russian army is full of people squeaking with joy at the chance to go and join the meat grinder? And their army is stuffed full of willing soldiers who simply couldn't wait to leave their comfortable home life and family and get involved with this barbaric war?
 
Mark Sloan said:
If Ukrainian men need to be press-ganged off the street, then one wonders what exactly is being defended by fighting this war. If the people don't want to fight, then what is being defended apart from the position of the ruling regime?
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Oh, oh, I know!

www.thetimes.com

Russia press-gangs central Asian workers into war amid migrant clampdown

Immigrants the country relies on to do low wage, menial jobs are being drafted after Crocus City Hall terrorist attack, leaving rubbish piling up in the streets
www.thetimes.com www.thetimes.com
 
Elpenor said:
Didn’t one of the moderators ask for more detail to be provided in posts than just a link?
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That is not what happened in the example you quoted. if you wish to complain about a post use the report post function.

editor said:
MOD MODE

Note: Posting up links with no other information is against the board rules for what I thought should be rather obvious reasons.
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editor said:
MOD MODE

Final warning: posters copying and pasting text with no source link included and/or no other comment will start receiving warnings.
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well say what you want about the Russia but when they take over parts of Ukraine you hear less news stories about conscription to stop them taking over parts of the country..

it is a win win situation
 
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