Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Ukip - why are they gaining support?

Is legalising marital rape the policy of ukip or any of it's candidates? Erm. No. That's a lie. I think it's dangerous for political discourse to be based on who can get the most lurid lies trending on fb, frankly.

granted but thats fuck all to do with the criminal law, potentially libellous yes but the police don't turn out for that. It would be quite hard to outlaw lies in elections given manifestos etc aren't legally binding. They have gone down the wrong route and Strisanded the thing.
 
but it's just a compilation of the hatchet jobs the media has been doing on them for weeks anyway - and look how convincing they were. Do you think anyone is going to be convinced not to vote ukip by this list of transparent lies?
 
but it's just a compilation of the hatchet jobs the media has been doing on them for weeks anyway - and look how convincing they were. Do you think anyone is going to be convinced not to vote ukip by this list of transparent lies?

A few, will certainly add vigour to their opponents that protest their meetings, vandalise their campaign literature and other anti democratic actions. But by trying to make it a criminal matter and trying to have facebook pages pulled all they are doing is making things worse. A rebuttle unit and warning of a writ was the way to go. A proper election team would have been working on that. A bloke standing for local council, has, (in any other party) taken decisons beyond his pay grade and made things worse. pouring petrol on the situation. Why the police went along with it fuck knows. They should have directed him to the ERO down the town hall for a chat.
 
we will need to update the law to cover electronic publications though. If you want to influence an election beyond voting, be contactable.
 
A few, will certainly add vigour to their opponents that protest their meetings, vandalise their campaign literature and other anti democratic actions. But by trying to make it a criminal matter and trying to have facebook pages pulled all they are doing is making things worse. A rebuttle unit and warning of a writ was the way to go. A proper election team would have been working on that. A bloke standing for local council, has, (in any other party) taken decisons beyond his pay grade and made things worse. pouring petrol on the situation. Why the police went along with it fuck knows. They should have directed him to the ERO down the town hall for a chat.

That link doesn't say anything about trying to get a facebook pages pulled. You suggest UKIP should have warned of a writ - that sounds exactly like what happened. In fact, they may not even have gone that far in instance given the hazy nature of the suggested "legalistic threats from a UKIP member". Note as well: member.
 
Janice Atkinson, PR person for Ukip, MEP candidate and former Daily Mail columnist is a right charmer:

"Janice Atkinson, as Ukip SE chairman, and MEP candidate, jointly with colleagues Patricia Culligan and Alan Stevens, MEP candidates, have raised concerns about the way the police will deal with the protestors at the Hove Ukip public meeting, on Tuesday, 13th May to be held in the Jewish Hall. They have formally asked the chief constable to arrest any protestors who call our supporters 'fascists', hurlother abuse or any physical assault, for 'hate crime' or under the public order act."
http://votejaniceatkinsonukip.co.uk/Media/Press-Releases/Anti-racist-12-05-2014.pdf

Deliberately stoking tensions in Kent:

"Ninety per cent of ATM [cash machine] crime is committed by Romanian gangs and drug and gun crime is mainly run by Eastern Europeans."

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/eastern-europeans-are-creating-no-go-17019/
 
A few, will certainly add vigour to their opponents that protest their meetings, vandalise their campaign literature and other anti democratic actions. But by trying to make it a criminal matter and trying to have facebook pages pulled all they are doing is making things worse. A rebuttle unit and warning of a writ was the way to go. A proper election team would have been working on that. A bloke standing for local council, has, (in any other party) taken decisons beyond his pay grade and made things worse. pouring petrol on the situation. Why the police went along with it fuck knows. They should have directed him to the ERO down the town hall for a chat.

That's the answer then is it? Better press officers?

I'm not really interested in UKIP's response tbh. I'm just pissed off that this bollocks is getting traction and seen as a good thing by people who should know better.
 
I don't know why anyone would want to make shit up about UKIP to find reasons not to vote for them. Their 'positions' surely offer enough..in their own words...
1.Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing

2.Enrol unemployed welfare claimants onto community schemes or retraining workfare programmes.

3.Develop shale gas to reduce energy bills and free us from dependence on foreign oil and gas

4.UKIP will abolish inheritance tax.

5.Make cuts to foreign aid that are real and rigorous.

6.Remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.

7.Allow the creation of new grammar schools.

8.Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.

9.Teach children positive messages and pride in their country.

etc....
 
That's the answer then is it? Better press officers?

I'm not really interested in UKIP's response tbh. I'm just pissed off that this bollocks is getting traction and seen as a good thing by people who should know better.


I don't think it is a good thing. But it will happen increasingly now we can all publish to world from anywhere. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, though you should be accountable for what you say (I sort of understand why it gets a bit different for elected politicans- only accountable at elections). BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE LITERALLY POLICED
 
I don't know why anyone would want to make shit up about UKIP to find reasons not to vote for them. Their 'positions' surely offer enough..in their own words...

To us 'right thinking' types, yes. Many people have swallowed the 'scroungers' narrative, think all foreign aid buys flash cars for dictators, think Grammar Schools 'helped out the poor' and lap up patriotism. That list will seem acceptable to far more people than we'd like. I guess the twitteratai and HNH types are focusing on homophobia, racism etc. as it's nearly universally accepted that these are bad things, even in most of the right-wing press these days. They're also things that can be challenged or upheld without affecting the wealthy or financial systems that serve them - social liberalism has little cost, not that it isn't important/valued.

Not saying that's an effective technique, but that might be why people are picking up on those things more than stuff like their batshit energy policy, for instance. It's simplistic sloganeering, but then explaining the value of the social chapter to people succinctly is harder to achieve.

You also have to consider a lot of people aren't being strategic in their attacks on UKIP or thinking about how what they say influences other voters - they're just angry at bigots attacking the culture of them or their friends and are raging back at them, regardless of whether this is 'effective' or not.
 
To us 'right thinking' types, yes. Many people have swallowed the 'scroungers' narrative, think all foreign aid buys flash cars for dictators, think Grammar Schools 'helped out the poor' and lap up patriotism. That list will seem acceptable to far more people than we'd like. I guess the twitteratai and HNH types are focusing on homophobia, racism etc. as it's nearly universally accepted that these are bad things, even in most of the right-wing press these days. They're also things that can be challenged or upheld without affecting the wealthy or financial systems that serve them - social liberalism has little cost, not that it isn't important/valued.

Not saying that's an effective technique, but that might be why people are picking up on those things more than stuff like their batshit energy policy, for instance. It's simplistic sloganeering, but then explaining the value of the social chapter to people succinctly is harder to achieve.

You also have to consider a lot of people aren't being strategic in their attacks on UKIP or thinking about how what they say influences other voters - they're just angry at bigots attacking the culture of them or their friends and are raging back at them, regardless of whether this is 'effective' or not.

Yep, but I'd say that making up stuff is even less effective. I suppose the intent (?) of the anti-UKIP stuff was to dissuade trad. Lab voters from switching rather than hoping to have any effect upon tory switchers.
 
Enacting a minimum intelligence requirement to vote is not exactly analogous to saying that female suffrage was a bad idea...
Yes it is. It's restricting the franchise on a pathetically spurious basis the same as stop. In fact, the former - which you seem to have some synpathy for? - is actually worse as it's a movable barrier than you can just raise or lower rather than an absolute.

More to the point, his comments weren't directed at female enfranchisement - he talked about people having been in jail - and the loss of voting rights not being disenfranchised from birth.
 
Last edited:
I don't know why anyone would want to make shit up about UKIP to find reasons not to vote for them. Their 'positions' surely offer enough..in their own words...
I disagree. Like it or not, those positions are part of the reason why they're currently polling so high. They offer a response to the concerns that a lot of people have - one which clearly makes sense. Any attempt to counter UKIP has to respond to the same concerns, as clearly screaming 'racists!' isn't getting anywhere.
 
I disagree. Like it or not, those positions are part of the reason why they're currently polling so high. They offer a response to the concerns that a lot of people have - one which clearly makes sense. Any attempt to counter UKIP has to respond to the same concerns, as clearly screaming 'racists!' isn't getting anywhere.
Yep. Look at what people are saying not what UKIP are saying, listen to them, take them seriously, take what they say seriously. This isn't really about UKIP.
 
Last edited:
I disagree. Like it or not, those positions are part of the reason why they're currently polling so high. They offer a response to the concerns that a lot of people have - one which clearly makes sense. Any attempt to counter UKIP has to respond to the same concerns, as clearly screaming 'racists!' isn't getting anywhere.

Oh yes, and tbf I think I've been pretty consistent in arguing that. But, responding to UKIP's positions by making stuff up is obviously just as counter-productive as shouting "racists". I do think that a valid response to UKIP's rise is to point out the disconnect between people's concerns driving the poll numbers and the actual UKIP proposals; meddling with education, re-introducing selective schooling, abolishing inheritance tax, rolling back human rights and fracking etc. are almost certainly not what UKIP voters think they are voting for.
 
They want 'rolling back of human rights' for the bad guys though, don't they? 'Universal' rights, benefits, healthcare are all anathema.

At the same time I think there was a poll out a while ago showing more UKIP supporters than other party supporters wanted the railways renationalised (or at least more than tory supporters). Maybe part of the desire for the 'good old days' (suspect they'd be even happier going back to the pre-nationalisation 'big four' if that was an option). It's not something that matches what the leadership wants, I'm sure.
 
Oh, and expecting migrants to support themselves for five years including non-emergency medical care is just another way of bringing forward the break-up of the NHS and a way of getting cash registers in surgeries and hospitals (or encouraging rival private provision). That stuff needs pointing out a bit more. People working here and paying taxes deserve the collective benefits paid for by those taxes, there isn't (yet) a minimum qualifying period for people born here.
 
I know you're using hyperbole, but I very much doubt that.

The red tops are always grumbling about human rights, and how it stops terrorists/foreign criminals being deported and so on. It's been a tabloid theme for years, and doubtless has a lot of public support. I don't quite know what the agenda is behind this - fear that the same institutions could be used to hold the government or industry to account?
 
They want 'rolling back of human rights' for the bad guys though, don't they? 'Universal' rights, benefits, healthcare are all anathema.

At the same time I think there was a poll out a while ago showing more UKIP supporters than other party supporters wanted the railways renationalised (or at least more than tory supporters). Maybe part of the desire for the 'good old days' (suspect they'd be even happier going back to the pre-nationalisation 'big four' if that was an option). It's not something that matches what the leadership wants, I'm sure.
Last bit - utterly key. The leadership here is not the voters. The voters are using the party - not the other way round. That's where the wedge should be driven in and why it's also an opportunity for those of us concerned with or facing the same issues.
 
The red tops are always grumbling about human rights, and how it stops terrorists/foreign criminals being deported and so on. It's been a tabloid theme for years, and doubtless has a lot of public support.

Yes, but they've always accepted that there should be human rights; it's just a question of what those rights should be.
 
Back
Top Bottom