Two arrested for murder after hunt supporter's death

[Serotonin]

Perhaps the guy tried to block the runway and the pilot drove the copter in his direction down the runway hoping/assuming the guy would move, hence hitting him. A sort of game of chicken.

That could be construed as murder I guess, but more likely negligence/manslaughter.

 

[dylanredefined]

Perhaps the guy tried to block the runway and the pilot drove the copter in his direction down the runway hoping/assuming the guy would move, hence hitting him. A sort of game of chicken.

That could be construed as murder I guess, but more likely negligence/manslaughter.

Probably something like that rationality seems to fly out the window when ever hunters and sabs meet .

 

[Serotonin]

Probably something like that rationality seems to fly out the window when ever hunters and sabs meet .

They can both be as bad as each other in my experience.
Often its the hunt supporters not the hunters themselves that can be the most over excitable.

 

[derf]

Yeah, that's how I read it too.

*waits for further and better information*

I'm waiting for further information before I make comments in this case.

A bloke snuffed it and because some here don't like what he stands for he must be a prat or a thug.
It's prejudging a case just as much as assuming that an Athens teenager was murdered. Suits political ideas but that's your lot.

IF the AUTOGYRO (what the fucking hell's bells is a gyrocopter?) tried to take off with someone in the way, and knowing it, he could be charged with murder.

IF is the big word so I'll hang around for more details before I assume someone is guilty or another is a thug.

 

[likesfish]

unfortunatly think the autogyro pilot and his mate should have been slapped down hard weeks ago and this would'nt have happened.
Don't think non state actors can play at aerial surrvillence.
and in an auto gyro there can't be more than half a dozen of the failed helicopters in the uk so not difficult to find.
Mind you a bloke who follows fox hunting in a landrover why?

 

[Kaka Tim]

Theres a long history of violence from huntscum towards sabs with the police turning a blind eye.
Murder charge sounds like utter bollocks though - for a start the incident was clearly not pre-medidated and they'd ahve to prove intent.
It seems to point towards the pilot panicking in the face of shouty aggresive and large huntscum bloke and either
a. didn't turn off the rotas or
b. decided to try and take off.
Either way its manslughter with a defence of fear for your own safety.

 

[pogofish]

If, having seen him, the pilot continued to move towards him (without good reason), that would suffice for murder I suspect.

Taxing aircraft are not noted for an ability to stop or turn on the button, esp if the prop was turning at anything approaching operating speed.

 

[pogofish]

Perhaps the guy tried to block the runway and the pilot drove the copter in his direction down the runway hoping/assuming the guy would move, hence hitting him. A sort of game of chicken.

Either way, airfield regs being what they are, that would be a
pretty serious offence for both parties.

 

[pogofish]

(what the fucking hell's bells is a gyrocopter?)

A variation on the same principle.

 

[Giles]

What about if someone (a protester, say) stands in front of an advancing vehicle, shouting to the driver "you're not going anywhere". Making the assumption that by placing his body in the path of the vehicle, the driver will not be able to proceed.

Driver gets angry and shouts at the bloke to get out of his way. Bloke doesn't, maybe laughs at the driver. Driver advances anyway and runs the bloke down.

Now, the bloke had no business standing in the road, and the driver had every right to drive down it.

But, that would be regarded as murder if the victim died, wouldn't it? Presumably this could have been similar except with rotor blades for added splatter factor? The guy thought by standing in the aircraft's way he wouldn't be able to take off, and the pilot disagreed.

Giles..

 

[STFC]

What about if someone (a protester, say) stands in front of an advancing vehicle, shouting to the driver "you're not going anywhere". Making the assumption that by placing his body in the path of the vehicle, the driver will not be able to proceed.

Driver gets angry and shouts at the bloke to get out of his way. Bloke doesn't, maybe laughs at the driver. Driver advances anyway and runs the bloke down.

Now, the bloke had no business standing in the road, and the driver had every right to drive down it.

But, that would be regarded as murder if the victim died, wouldn't it? Presumably this could have been similar except with rotor blades for added splatter factor? The guy thought by standing in the aircraft's way he wouldn't be able to take off, and the pilot disagreed.

Giles..

I know someone who was convicted of manslaughter after deliberately driving a car into somebody after a row. I would expect a similar outcome in this case.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Might be that they are charging on murder, as a cover all-on the basis that it can then get stepped down to manslaughter.

ISTR DB highlighting this approach back when he posted here.

It goes like this: If the pilot went 'no comment', then the OB will charge the highest offence and let the CPS/Courts work it it.

Same as with the prison van driver who knocked down the friendly loon in Brixton.

 

[Spymaster]

I'm sure channel 4 news last night were reporting that the guy that got killed had been haeding towards the gyrocopter to 'ask them what they were doing'.

..... wtf was he doing on the taxiway in the first place if not to confront the pilot?

If someone approaches me for driving like a cunt and I run them down, is it their fault?

The pilot has been charged with murder here.

I'm gonna tell the story how I read it, shoot me down in flames(sic)if you want.

Big bloke, hunt supporter(nice family man & part time thug)with all the gear, Barbour jacket & Landrover gets the 'ump with commie pinko hunt sabotuers. In fit of pique he charges onto airfield ready to tear pinko commies & their flimsy aircraft to pieces. Unfortunately he gets fatally whacked on't head with prop.

I'm going to call it how I see it. Hunt supporter has been constantly illegally harrased by sab's while going about a perfectly lawful activity. He gets pissed off, follows the gyrocopter to an airfield where the evil bastards deliberately fly/drive the machine at him intending to wind him up; but kill him, thus supporting a murder charge.

The hunt complained 10 days ago to the CAA that they were regularly being 'buzzed' by the machine so it was clearly being used dangerously.

I'd be surprised if they get a conviction.

Murder charge sounds like utter bollocks though - for a start the incident was clearly not pre-medidated and they'd ahve to prove intent.

I'd be quite surprised if the murder charge got as far as the start of trial, even.

Really? What do you three know that we don't?

Fuck me, this one's really brought out the armchair aviators, coppers, lawyers and psychics hasn't it???

Exactly how I see it. Police are being arseholes.

Don't be so fucking stupid, Linda.

On the currently available evidence, I'd far rather the sab's had crashed and died.

 

[Spymaster]

You'd need more than that for indirect intent when it comes to murder.

The prospect of death has to be a virtual certainty and the perp must appreciate that at that point in time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_in_English_law

Paolo is broadly correct.

If it can be shown that the pilot flew or drove at the victim in an attempt to injure or frighten, the murder charge should succeed.

Theres a long history of violence from huntscum towards sabs with the police turning a blind eye.

Long may it continue.

 

[Jonti]

That someone ends up dead is a fairly inevitable result of the police systematically turning a blind eye to violence.

Stupid boy!

 

[Spymaster]

That someone ends up dead is a fairly inevitable result of the police systematically turning a blind eye to violence.

Utter bollocks.

If the sab's weren't often involved in violence themselves they wouldn't be hurt. Only themselves to blame.

 

[The Octagon]

Video Evidence apparently

Bet that's gruesome.

 

[cesare]

Can you imagine filming someone being killed? Blimey.

 

[paolo]

Taxing aircraft are not noted for an ability to stop

You might think that, but you're wrong.

I've piloted plenty, and taxiing you can stop dead on the brakes, and keep it held like that whilst the prop is running at full whack.

It's actually a routine pre-flight check, where you go for high revs on the throttle, with the brakes engaged. It lets you test various things, including that the brakes can indeed hold in that situation.

 

[bigbry]

I read that the gyrocopter was taxiing at the time, rather than in flight.

I heard that which begs the thought how can it be murder if the 'pedestrian' is on the bloody airfield tarmac ?

 

[paolo]

I heard that which begs the thought how can it be murder if the 'pedestrian' is on the bloody airfield tarmac ?

And your logic there is?

(This is going to be )

 

[Kaka Tim]

Utter bollocks.

If the sab's weren't often involved in violence themselves they wouldn't be hurt. Only themselves to blame.

Disrupting the hunt is not violence. It usually involes laying false trials or confusing the dogs by using hunting horns - stuff like that.

This has often been met with extreme violence by hunt-supporters - including deaths. For which they are extremely unlikely to prosecuted for.

And you've made HUGE assumptions about what the gyrocopeter was doing. ITs 'buzzing' of the hunt may have been entirely legal and/or safe or it may not. Either way its irrelevant to this case.

The fact that he followed the copter for 20 miles and then went onto the runway strongly suggests he was about to confront them - very possibly in a threatening manor. His resulting death suggests a panic repsonse from the pilot. I can't see they would or could have deliberately attacked with the copter with intent to kill him - its not like driving a car at someone (something hunt supporters know all about).

As I say the murder charge looks pretty dodgey to me.

 

[Spymaster]

Sorry but I don't give a toss about hunt saboteurs or anyone else who seeks to impose their will on others or prevent them doing something perfectly lawful.

And you've made HUGE assumptions about what the gyrocopeter was doing. ITs 'buzzing' of the hunt may have been entirely legal and/or safe or it may not. Either way its irrelevant to this case.

I've made no assumptions whatsoever, I'm simply going by the evidence of what I've read in the links. Gyrocopters are apparently not allowed to fly below 500ft except when landing or taking off so in 'buzzing' the hunt they were being reckless and behaving illegally.

The fact that he followed the copter for 20 miles and then went onto the runway strongly suggests he was about to confront them - very possibly in a threatening manor. His resulting death suggests a panic repsonse from the pilot.

Now who's making assumptions?

Certainly he was going to confront them, his own supporters say he wanted to find out who the pilot was.

I can't see they would or could have deliberately attacked with the copter with intent to kill him....

They don't need to "intend" to kill him for a murder charge to succeed. If it can be shown that they were reckless as to whether their actions caused his death, that will do. If, as I suspect, they tried to scare him and accidently hit him, it's murder.

 

[cantsin]

Utter bollocks.

If the sab's weren't often involved in violence themselves they wouldn't be hurt. Only themselves to blame.

what utter bollocks

 

[Spymaster]

what utter bollocks

Great post.

Anyway, let's just hope that this scumbag does some serious time. It's looking good so far.

 

[cantsin]

Sorry but I don't give a toss about hunt saboteurs or anyone else who seeks to impose their will on others or prevent them doing something perfectly lawful.



I've made no assumptions whatsoever, I'm simply going by the evidence of what I've read in the links. Gyrocopters are apparently not allowed to fly below 500ft except when landing or taking off so in 'buzzing' the hunt they were being reckless and behaving illegally.



Now who's making assumptions?

Certainly he was going to confront them, his own supporters say he wanted to find out who the pilot was.



They don't need to "intend" to kill him for a murder charge to succeed. If it can be shown that they were reckless as to whether their actions caused his death, that will do. If, as I suspect, they tried to scare him and accidently hit him, it's murder.

the Gyro copter was on an airfield, so somewhat likely it was either taking off or landing do you reckon ?

its wankers like you that make me not give a toss for the dead hunt yob .

 

[cantsin]

Great post.

Anyway, let's just hope that this scumbag does some serious time. It's looking good so far.

yeah, right ....it ain't gonna happen, and you know it

 

[Spymaster]

the Gyro copter was on an airfield, so somewhat likely it was either taking off or landing do you reckon ?

You're not very bright are you?

Either read the thread properly or fuck off, eh?

 

[cantsin]

You're not very bright are you?

Either read the thread properly or fuck off, eh?

the old big man behind a keybaord routine eh ....impressive .

it won't even get to court you clown

 

[Spymaster]

the old big man behind a keybaord routine eh ....impressive .

Oh look, anonymous internet fuckwit doesn't like me !!!

You childish cock

it won't even get to court ...

That'll be your psychic abilities kicking in I guess.

We shall see, but you've been quoted so that we can come back and laugh at you!