Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[elbows]

As someone who is trans who has throughout my live moved within gay culture, I know who the real allies of trans people are, and I know full well that, come the inevitable backlash,men like you are the very men who will turn on us.

I'd like to know more about this. You could not be more wrong about me turning on trans people under any future scenario, and rather than spit my dummy out about this hilarious prediction, I would like to understand how on earth you have reached that conclusion. And for that matter the one about some great backlash against trans being inevitable?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Dr Radfem, a central organiser of the TERF speaking tour, on the struggle for abortion rights:

 

[elbows]

I have seen allies come and go: our allies were always the lesbians and other women, and the gay men, as well as straight men who wanted to show the world how progressive they are, now the men I see allied to transgender people are generally neo-liberal, authoritarian men who claim to be leftist and who claim to be into equality, as far as this suits them, who use transgender individuals as human shields for their own misogyny: they are the passive sexists and homophobes that in the 1970s and 1980s stood by while lesbians, gay men and transsexuals were culturally and legislatively ostracised.

While waiting to see if you reply to my question, I suppose in the meantime I might make the assumption that your claim that I will turn on trans people one day somehow relates to this bit.

Well, what are you playing at? You've got a general template that sounds rather crude and you think you can attach it to every supporter of modern trans campaigns that you bash heads with on an internet forum? When you've got no long-term knowledge of posters here and their political positions? I'm not neo-liberal for a start, and as for authoritarian, lol you are the one calling for simplistic laws banning anyone with a violent record from ever being able to transition. Even when you qualify such statements with more specifics about what sort of violence later, its still you that are happy to spout out authoritarian-sounding policy beliefs, not me. And one of the reasons I am interested in granular, individually judged approaches to justice is that is one way to help reduce authoritarianism and spread things like power out. I could not partake in the struggles of the 1970's and 80's because I was too young, so have no credentials to inspect on that particular front at that time. etc, etc, I wont repeat the same for all the other stuff that does not apply to me or many other people I know, since that would be redundant.

 

[trashpony]

Why would some random bloke off Twitter know what support women are or aren't giving to abortion charities in NI? Would he or you listen to Dr Radfem if you found out that she'd donated a grand to the Abortion Support Network? Or is this just another stick you found lying around?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

lesbianism The Nigel Way

Top tag line

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Why would some random bloke off Twitter know what support women are or aren't giving to abortion charities in NI? Would he or you listen to Dr Radfem if you found out that she'd donated a grand to the Abortion Support Network? Or is this just another stick you found lying around?

He didn’t know or claim to know. The letter being discussed asked British TERFs what they’d done to campaign for the abortion rights of women in Northern Ireland, part of their state, and then further asked why, if they actually had done something to help, none of the women in the abortion rights movement had ever heard about it.

The “random bloke off twitter” repeated the same question already put by hundreds of women. Dr Radfem responded by describing the struggle for abortion rights as the struggle to make “careless sex easier”. You can probably take it from that that she hasn’t in fact “donated a grand” to the ASN.

Your mini-movement really is blessed in its most prominent figures.

 

[MochaSoul]

Dr Radfem responded by describing the struggle for abortion rights as the struggle to make “careless sex easier”.

Damn... and I keep thinking *my* English is not good enough.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Why would some random bloke off Twitter know what support women are or aren't giving to abortion charities in NI? Would he or you listen to Dr Radfem if you found out that she'd donated a grand to the Abortion Support Network? Or is this just another stick you found lying around?

So random posts taken out of context by complete nobodies who support the anti-trans agenda are indicative of what the brave anti-trans souls are fighting against, but similar posts by people on the opposite side are verboten?

 

[MochaSoul]

Wes Streating is helping in the transphobia witch-hunt group FFS. That says a lot

 

[Pickman's model]

Wes Streating is helping in the transphobia witch-hunt group FFS. That says a lot

Never heard of him till this post

 

[Magnus McGinty]

He didn’t know or claim to know. The letter being discussed asked British TERFs what they’d done to campaign for the abortion rights of women in Northern Ireland, part of their state, and then further asked why, if they actually had done something to help, none of the women in the abortion rights movement had ever heard about it.

The “random bloke off twitter” repeated the same question already put by hundreds of women. Dr Radfem responded by describing the struggle for abortion rights as the struggle to make “careless sex easier”. You can probably take it from that that she hasn’t in fact “donated a grand” to the ASN.

Your mini-movement really is blessed in its most prominent figures.

What campaigning have you done for Northern Ireland?

 

[Pickman's model]

What campaigning have you done for Northern Ireland?

I thought yer man was based in the free state

 

[MochaSoul]

Never heard of him till this post

 

[Pickman's model]

I see no Jim murphy

 

[elbows]

Anyone else believe in this 'inevitable backlash' stuff Miranda made reference to? Or care the describe any reasoning behind the prediction it in any detail?

Because if I am blind towards the potential for such a backlash to occur, then the claim that I will turn on trans people after the backlash could be changed to something that could on paper at least have a modicum of credibility. A picture could be painted of me helping to lead people over a cliff, encouraging their dangerous folly, etc. Yes, I believe some people could make that story work using plenty of their already assembled techniques and tropes. And we could at least get straight into discussing various things relating to the predicted backlash, rather than me just boring everyone by trying to defend myself against wacky claims about what I will do when the tide turns.

 

[elbows]

Oh tell me about the tide, and why I am a sandcastle in your eyes, otherwise I might have to sing, and that scenario certainly isnt win-win.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

As someone who is trans who has throughout my life moved within gay culture, I know who the real allies of trans people are, and I know full well that, come the inevitable backlash, men like you are the very men who will turn on us.
.

What the fuck is this? You have only just arrived here, remember. You want to know what a 'man like' elbows is, go and check out the various Arab Spring threads. Give them a good fucking read, particularly elbows' posts. You might learn something.

Fuck me.

 

[elbows]

Actually some of those threads probably contain the other known instances of me being called a neo-liberal Casually Red didnt take kindly to people who would not salute colonel Gaddafi after all.

 

[pengaleng]

whats happening?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This debate has reached an impossible point. It's ok to slag off a male poster just cos he's male. That's justification enough. It's fucking depressing to read.

 

[pengaleng]

terrible, this is urbans politics forum, you slag people off for being cunts not male, fuckin shameful

 

[littlebabyjesus]

My favourite moments have come when people have tried slagging you off, peng, tbf.

 

[pengaleng]

My favourite moments have come when people have tried slagging you off, peng, tbf.

me too tbh it's been well fun

 

[elbows]

This debate has reached an impossible point. It's ok to slag off a male poster just cos he's male. That's justification enough. It's fucking depressing to read.

I'm sure the justification isnt just because I'm male. Hopefully it will at least be various things I've said, plus of course not being on Mirandas side of the debate. This thread has motivated me to do a lot more for the cause in future, I wonder if and where I can be any use at all.

 

[pengaleng]

ahhhh i had to put miranda on ignore, they dont talk in circles they talks in vortexes

 

[elbows]

ahhhh i had to put miranda on ignore, they dont talk in circles they talks in vortexes

Gronda Gronda.

 

[pengaleng]

yeh it's gone well beyond pete burns init

grimes oblivion is on me playlist, kinda fits the theme well

credit for the vortex line goes to mac lethal - tune called shannon iirc

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I'm sure the justification isnt just because I'm male. Hopefully it will at least be various things I've said, plus of course not being on Mirandas side of the debate. This thread has motivated me to do a lot more for the cause in future, I wonder if and where I can be any use at all.

I will say that, it certainly has helped me clarify where I stand on ting.

yeh it's gone well beyond pete burns init

grimes oblivion is on me playlist, kinda fits the theme well

credit for the vortex line goes to mac lethal - tune called shannon iirc

The perplexed playlist, here's one

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I thought yer man was based in the free state

He’s asking people in England what campaigning they’ve done so I wondered what he had done. He’s connected by land after all.

 

[Pickman's model]

He’s asking people in England what campaigning they’ve done so I wondered what he had done. He’s connected by land after all.

Like brandon stark you mean with the tree?