Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[smokedout]

smokedout do you see this as a zero sum game where there's a limited amount of horrible things in the world to happen to people (at the hands of people born with penises) and women and transgender people should fight it out over which slice of the pie is worth more? that way lies madness.

Fuck no, what I'm trying to get across is the over whelming violence and abuse heaped on trans women as a way of understanding why such an aggresive movement might have been born out of that. And some trans critical feminists are not just fanning the flames but actively trying to prevent trans women from accessing support when they are victims of sexual violence.

 

[weepiper]

Fuck no, what I'm trying to get across is the over whelming violence and abuse heaped on trans women as a way of understanding why such an aggresive movement might have been born out of that. And some trans critical feminists are not just fanning the flames but actively trying to prevent trans women from accessing support when they are victims of sexual violence.

Radical feminism is aggressive for exactly the same reasons though. It's a reaction to the level of abuse and violence and discrimination we receive just by dint of being born female.

 

[bimble]

Radical feminism is aggressive for exactly the same reasons though. It's a reaction to the level of abuse and violence and discrimination we receive just by dint of being born female.

Yes this. And now we are told that being 'cis' and having a female body is a privilidge.

 

[8ball]

Yes this. And now we are told that being 'cis' and having a female body is a privilidge.

Well, it's pretty common so I guess it would have to be, taking the whole intersectional bingo-card multi-prism into account.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Oh Nigel. Yes. You only factually stated that in the current climate we are pariahs, are being thrown out of the Labour party and can't meet in public freely. You did not say explicitly that this great but you are happy about it aren't you?

I said that you can’t meet in public without protests, which is true. You changed that to can’t meet in public without being attacked, which is both a paranoid fantasy and a deliberate lie about the comment you were discussing.

It is a good thing that TERFs are pariahs, that their views are anathema across progressive movements and that their attempts to influence the Labour Party in a transphobic direction have backfired. Just as it’s a good thing that racists and homophobes are met with hostility. Saying that is not the same thing as advocating that TERFs be met with violence or that they should be physically prevented from meeting. Marginalization of bigots is a good thing, no platforming of that kind is for fascists not simple bigots.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Radical feminism is aggressive for exactly the same reasons though. It's a reaction to the level of abuse and violence and discrimination we receive just by dint of being born female.

The problem being the determination of a subset of radfems to focus that aggression on a deeply marginalised oppressed group who aren’t responsible for the abuse, violence and discrimination that women face and who are on the receiving end of similar abuse, violence and discrimination. It’s so perverse a political orientation that it would be funny if it wasn’t so harmful.

 

[8ball]

The problem being the determination of a subset of radfems to focus that aggression on a deeply marginalised oppressed group who aren’t responsible for the abuse, violence and discrimination that women face and who are on the receiving end of similar abuse, violence and discrimination. It’s so perverse a political orientation that it would be funny if it wasn’t so harmful.

What's the lower margin of bigotry in this issue?
Would it qualify for a small group of women to not want a trans woman in a support group who had been abused by men?

 

[smokedout]

Radical feminism is aggressive for exactly the same reasons though. It's a reaction to the level of abuse and violence and discrimination we receive just by dint of being born female.

I agree and I'm glad it is. It's who the target is that I'd oppose (in some cases), alongside the compromises they make and alliances they form to mount their attack.

 

[Ralph Llama]

If Nigel has a penis , can I move the debate on to capital punishment?

 

[bimble]

It is a good thing that TERFs are pariahs, that their views are anathema across progressive movements and that their attempts to influence the Labour Party in a transphobic direction have backfired.

What is the nature of these 'progessive movements' of which you speak?

Apart from parroting "Trans Women Are Women" what do you stand for here ?

How is what you are championing in this conversation socialist or materialist or left wing in any way instead of just about the individual's consumerist identitarian wishes ?

What do you think gender is Nigel?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

What is the nature of these 'progessive movements' of which you speak? From which we are excluded as bigots.
Apart from parroting "Trans Women Are Women" what do you stand for here ?
How is what you are championing in this conversation socialist or materialist or left wing in any way instead of just about the individual's consumerist identitarian wishes ? Also what do you think gender is Nigel?

You still seem to be under the impression that I’m interested in debating the merits of your bigotry with you. I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it that I have no such interest. Your persistence is almost making me start to feel a little sorry for you.

 

[bimble]

You still seem to be under the impression that I’m interested in debating the merits of your bigotry with you. I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it that I have no such interest. Your persistence is almost making me start to feel a little sorry for you.

Your pity is much appreciated. You don't feel charitable and condescending enough to answer any of my questions then. ok.

 

[Ralph Llama]

My... what lights do you see at such pious hights Nigel?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Your pity is much appreciated. You don't feel condescending enough to answer any of my questions then.

I’m not interested in arguing with convinced and obsessive bigots about the merits of their nasty prejudices. That goes for alt right man children demanding to know what I think about racial IQ just as it goes for TERFs asking TERF questions. If you really need someone to explain to you that you are a revolting transphobe, I suggest you ask your boyfriend again. He, unlike me, probably has some reason to care about your existence enough to humour you.

 

[bimble]

I’m not interested in arguing with convinced and obsessive bigots about the merits of their nasty prejudices. If you really need someone to explain to you that you are a revolting transphobe, I suggest you ask your boyfriend again. He, unlike me, probably has some reason to care about your existence enough to humour you.

Jesus f christ leave my boyfriend out of it.
What do you think gender means Nigel?

 

[smokedout]

I’m not interested in arguing with convinced and obsessive bigots about the merits of their nasty prejudices. That goes for alt right man children demanding to know what I think about racial IQ just as it goes for TERFs asking TERF questions. If you really need someone to explain to you that you are a revolting transphobe, I suggest you ask your boyfriend again. He, unlike me, probably has some reason to care about your existence enough to humour you.

You aren't helping.

 

[weepiper]

I’m not interested in arguing with convinced and obsessive bigots about the merits of their nasty prejudices. That goes for alt right man children demanding to know what I think about racial IQ just as it goes for TERFs asking TERF questions. If you really need someone to explain to you that you are a revolting transphobe, I suggest you ask your boyfriend again. He, unlike me, probably has some reason to care about your existence enough to humour you.

Any chance of you magnanimously shutting up then, so those of us that want to have a conversation with each other can?

 

[Treacle Toes]

eh? Spoilt by what? Lets just ignore eachother its boring now.

The kind of spoilt that demands people not say x, y, z because you ' just happen to be' yet imagine it's all fine and dandy to call other's nazi/hitler youth. What happens now if Nigel tells you he is of German heritage? Erm yeah...you hate ID politics, until your own seeps out.

Boring, it is yes.

 

[Ralph Llama]

What about 8balls point Nigel?

 

[bimble]

You aren't helping.

How is he not helping? He's totally doing it by the book. He's on the side of the future.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Nigel...please pause for breath and thought.

 

[8ball]

How is he not helping? He's totally doing it by the book. He's on the side of the future.

Always in motion the future is.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Any chance of you magnanimously shutting up then, so those of us that want to have a conversation with each other can?

No. I’m going to continue using this thread to draw attention to the vicious prejudices of TERFery and to examine the role their activism plays in making the world a worse place for a deeply marginalised group. I’ve said over and over again that I’m not interested in having a congenial discussion with bigots about the merits of their bigotry. That hasn’t changed: TERFs are morally no different from obsessive racists or homophobes and I respond to them as such.

If you want a pleasant conversation with your fellow bigots uninterrupted by rude people reminding you that you are the useful idiots of the Murdoch press piss off to one of the TERF Facebook groups.

 

[8ball]

No. I’m going to continue using this thread to draw attention to the vicious prejudices of TERFery and to examine the role their activism plays in making the world a worse place for a deeply marginalised group. I’ve said over and over again that I’m not interested in having a congenial discussion with bigots about the merits of their bigotry. That hasn’t changed: TERFs are morally no different from obsessive racists or homophobes and I respond to them as such.

Pretty sure I'm not a terf. I'm not even a rf.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Pretty sure I'm not a terf. I'm not even a rf.

Pretty sure I didn’t call you one.

 

[weepiper]

No. I’m going to continue using this thread to draw attention to the vicious prejudices of TERFery and to examine the role their activism plays in making the world a worse place for a deeply marginalised group. I’ve said over and over again that I’m not interested in having a congenial discussion with bigots about the merits of their bigotry. That hasn’t changed: TERFs are morally no different from obsessive racists or homophobes and I respond to them as such.

Lovely. Of course you are.

 

[8ball]

Pretty sure I didn’t call you one.

No, but my question was one you glossed over, thinking maybe I was included.
If you don't want to discuss anything with anyone, I'm not sure why you're still here.

 

[Ralph Llama]

So Nigel, have you ever tried to suck your own cock?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I’m not interested in arguing with convinced and obsessive bigots about the merits of their nasty prejudices. That goes for alt right man children demanding to know what I think about racial IQ just as it goes for TERFs asking TERF questions. If you really need someone to explain to you that you are a revolting transphobe, I suggest you ask your boyfriend again. He, unlike me, probably has some reason to care about your existence enough to humour you.

Has anyone ever put your teeth in? Or do you just play the cunt online?

 

[Treacle Toes]

So Nigel, have you ever tried to suck your own cock?

Are you 12?