Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[MochaSoul]

It's a bit tiresome you misrepresenting my position simply because you appear not to have understood it. It wasn't some pomo relativism, but a rebuttal of MY's spurious (at least implied) dichotomy between opponents ideology and 'reality', on the basis that their position failed to acknowledge that their truth rests wholly on a choice about the basis of definition of gender.

What's your definition of gender?

 

[Athos]

No. The choice MY makes is to prioritise the material over the esoteric, and you're saying they're both equally valid.

I've not talked about validity. I specifically addressed the idea that one was more "real". Both conceptions are equally real; they exist in the mind of the person conceiving then then.

 

[Athos]

What's your definition of gender?

The attributes and expectations society imposes on people according to their sex.

 

[trashpony]

I’ve responded directly to your deeply stupid views once already today. Your two comments since have just been repetitions of the same dishonest posturing. In the unlikely event that you ever say something of interest I might respond to you again, but I feel no need to respond to each and every statement by every bigot on this thread. I’m not here to have a polite discussion with you or to humor your transphobia. You should really let go of this apparent need for my attention.

I'm deeply stupid, dishonest and a bigot? None of those are true but kudos for big words! But I'll give you a massive handclap for displaying your misogyny.
If I told you I was black, do you want to add some additional slurs? I'm sure you can think of some

 

[bimble]

I've not talked about validity. I specifically addressed the idea that one was more "real". Both conceptions are equally really; they exist in the mind of the person conceiving then then.

They are "equally really". ok. So reality = someone thinking that any particular thing is true.
How the fuck do you combine this extreme relativism and centrality of the self/ perception with any of your other ideas about what matters in the world or how you want to see things move forwards structurally?

 

[MochaSoul]

The attributes and expectations society imposes on people according to their sex.

Given that definition of gender what do you think of the claim that "transgender women are women" (or its counterpart: "transgender men are men" - we never talk about this one)?

 

[Athos]

They are "equally really". ok. So reality = someone thinking that any particular thing is true. How the fuck do you combine this extreme relativism and centrality of the self/ perception with any of your other ideas about what matters in the world or how you want to see things move forwards structurally?

I don't have to reconcile any relativism. You're confusing the fact of the conceptions being qualitatively the same with the truth of the content of those conceptions.

 

[bimble]

I don't have to reconciled any relativism. You're confusing the fact of the conceptions being qualitatively the sane with the truth of the content of those conceptions.

Oh so there is such a thing as truth, or reality, which is a separate thing from what you or the next person might believe to be true ?

What are you on about then. My cat is a boy cat right?

 

[Athos]

Given that definition of gender what do you think of the claim that "transgender women are women" (or its counterpart: "transgender men are men")?

It's one I choose to subscribe to, insofar as it has any significance to my life, notwithstanding the philosophical incongruity, because of the balance of harms when compared to trans exclusion, and the political opportunities it presents. But, I don't expect others to think the same, as such an approach might have more significance/a different balance of harms to them. And I actively resist the attempt to bully women into submitting to this new orthodoxy.

 

[Athos]

My cat is a boy cat right?

I think so.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

I've not talked about validity. I specifically addressed the idea that one was more "real". Both conceptions are equally real; they exist in the mind of the person conceiving then then.

Athos, is that a long way of saying that the mind forms reality thus any reality a mind forms is basically true? Becuase that's idealism, which is the basis of postmodernism. And the opposite is of materialism.

Edit : not jumping on you Athos, but that's what it sounds like to me.

 

[Athos]

Athos, is that a long way of saying that the mind forms reality thus any reality a mind forms is basically true? Becuase that's idealism, which is the basis of postmodernism. And the opposite is of materialism.

Edit : not jumping on you Athos, but that's what it sounds like to me.

No. That's not what I was saying.

 

[bimble]

No. That's not what I was saying.

Yes it was. You said neither perception, material or esoteric/ personal is more 'real' than the other.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

No. That's not what I was saying.

Fair enough. Then I do not understand what you are saying.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I'm deeply stupid, dishonest and a bigot? None of those are true but kudos for big words! But I'll give you a massive handclap for displaying your misogyny.
If I told you I was black, do you want to add some additional slurs? I'm sure you can think of some

I've been assuming that you are simply disingenuous but I'm beginning to wonder if you really don't understand that you are not in fact the voice of all womankind? And that people can be hostile to your nasty, bigoted opinions without that reflecting a general hostility to women?

In either case, this apparently desperate need for the attention of someone who holds you in contempt is a bit unseemly.

 

[Athos]

Yes it was.

You think it was, because you haven't grasped the point I was making. I've tried to explain it to you, but to no avail. I don't really see where else to go on this, now.

 

[bimble]

You think it was, because you haven't grasped the point I was making. I've tried to explain it to you, but to no avail. I don't really see where else to go on this, now.

Your point of view is equally real though, no matter if you can communicate it in shared language or if anyone else can understand it, so thats cool.

 

[Athos]

Fair enough. Then I do not understand what you are saying.

I've tried to clarify. But it doesn't really matter.

 

[MochaSoul]

It's one I choose to subscribe to, insofar as it has any significance to my life, notwithstanding the philosophical incongruity, because of the balance of harms when compared to trans exclusion. But, I don't expect others to think the same, as such an approach might have more significance/a different balance of harms to them. And I actively resist the attempt to bully women into submitting to this new orthodoxy.

?

So, because it doesn't really affect you, you choose to subscribe to it.

 

[Athos]

?

So, because it doesn't really affect you, you choose to subscribe to it.

No. More like, insofar as I encounter trans women, treating them as men would do more harm than good. But, I recognise that, as a man, I don't encounter those difficult marginal cases e.g. rape shelters.

 

[twentythreedom]

This is going well

 

[Athos]

Your point of view is equally real though, no matter if you can communicate it in shared language or if anyone else can understand it, so thats cool.

Whether you think it's right or wrong, it's undeniably real.

 

[bimble]

This is going well

That's all a matter of perception. There is no such thing as well.

 

[Santino]

I will should your own efforts prove too feeble

I am saddened to note your inconsistent approach to unsubstantiated claims on this thread.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

This is going well

Could be worse.

I'm enjoying Nigel's contributions the most. Gold, they are.

 

[Athos]

That's all a matter of perception. There is no such thing as well.

Yawn.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am saddened to note your inconsistent approach to unsubstantiated claims on this thread.

I'm disappointed you don't have the gumption to ask yer man yourself, puling for someone else to do the job

 

[bimble]

Whether you think it's right or wrong, it's undeniably real.

What does real mean ?
This is my idea of fun.

 

[Red Cat]

This is going well

It's a conversation. What did you want?

 

[Athos]

What does real mean ?
This is my idea of fun.

You need to get out more.