Organising for what? Wages for housework (apols, showing my age). hating on men? How do they threaten transactivism. Or do they? Are these women in positions of power? There seems to be quite a lot of furious youngish men being cuntish all over the internet. A lot of murdering fucks IRL too. I am guessing not a huge number of them actually are trans anything though, rather than total arses.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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Organising for what? Wages for housework (apols, showing my age). hating on men? How do they threaten transactivism. Or do they? Are these women in positions of power? There seems to be quite a lot of furious youngish men being cuntish all over the internet. A lot of murdering fucks IRL too. I am guessing not a huge number of them actually are trans anything though, rather than total arses.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Ah, I see. Not "ignorant of," but ignorant as in behaving like a git.
For example, misgendering or arguing that transwomen bring male violence into female spaces.
Bossy women, ey?
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Sheer fucking bollocks. The level of transphobia relates directly to the abuse transpeople suffer. If women participate in that transphobia then they are a threat.
binka
!!!!!!!!!
I appreciate that but it wasn't really what I was getting at. I am aware trans people have to take a lot of shit, often violent, which everyone on this thread agrees is awful.
I was more on about this specific argument/disagreement. I did find weepiper first post on here on page 9 really interesting and was disappointed no one replied to it.
trashpony
Hag
How exactly?
They don't think they're cis women.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
For example - when Roseanne Barr came out with a rant about the dangers of letting transwomen use female toilets, do you think that had no effect on the safety of transwomen in the USA?
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Why is this a 'bigoted' view to hold?
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Are TERFS as a group violent towards transwomen? Possibly not physically, although if they delay legislation that makes transwomen safe that could be indirect violence. But we all know violence can be emotional as well, and denying someone's legitamacy and lived experience, continuing to misgender transwomen despite being told that is extremely distressing, holding meetings that they are excluded from in order to define that criteria of womanhood; well that sounds quite emotionally violent to me.
Fwiw, re: the collection of anti TERF quotes by transwomen, I have seen a very similar list of anti transwomen quotes from TERFS.
Fwiw, re: the collection of anti TERF quotes by transwomen, I have seen a very similar list of anti transwomen quotes from TERFS.
Link?
trashpony
Hag
So who is dangerous? Women or men?
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Sorry, I'm not the best person to talk to about the specifics of the TERF view. Partly because I have friends and colleagues who are transgender and so I'm kind of invested.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
Men are the dangerous sex, like about nine times as violent as women as posted upthread. But women are responsible, 'cos, y'know, they're women.
Ok , so this is the bit I don't get. Are cis-women allowed to organise together?
trashpony
Hag
Evidence please. Not just misogyny dressed up as it.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
because of what comes with it. Only people looking to exclude trans women say this. I'm happy to accept the difference but I'm not having anyone tell me i can be excluded from women's spaces because i'm not a "women born women".
Women are very diverse as a group. why single out one group of women in particular unless you think they're not actually women?
That's why it's transphobic.
Is there a trans ideology then? All trans? I am having difficulty with this because feminism, as I understand it, exists both as academic and philosophical theory, but also lived experience and context...and, as such, is actually many feminisms, many ideologies...and we work to unify, to find common ground with all women, who have points of contact and empathy. Including transwomen. But also, we embrace difference. A work in progress though. Hatefulness is very free-floating
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
How about you provide some evidence for your assertion that men are using transactivism to promote misogyny.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
With respect, cis women have every much right as trans women to organise their own spaces without threat of disruption and violence.
This really shouldn't need saying.
Because the lived experiences and struggles of trans women are different from those of cis women?
trashpony
Hag
I thought that a rapist and a murderer were pretty good evidence. I've got lots more where they came from if you're interested.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Was this a dream you had? Because just saying the words "rapist" and "murderer" doesn't count as evidence.
Any women's spaces, Stella? Do you accept there are possibilities that some women may have biological issues which are not hormonal (although could have cultural underpinnings...such as vaginismus, miscarriage? Or specific to ethnicity, culture? And are you also not entitled to take space for yourself and a particular group you claim as witness, supporters, allies, refusing those who threatened violence, oppression?
oops, fucked up the quoty thing (again) apols
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
ok.let's hear it. Give me specifics then, the spaces you're referring to and why you think trans women as a group need to be excluded from it.
eta - the whole structure of your post seems to imply that cis women might need to exclude trans women for reasons of "refusing those who threatened violence, oppression."
Please explain.
sunnysidedown
caput mortuum
because they are mentranswomen?
Any women's spaces, Stella? Do you accept there are possibilities that some women may have biological issues which are not hormonal (although could have cultural underpinnings...such as vaginismus, miscarriage? Or specific to ethnicity, culture? And are you also not entitled to take space for yourself and a particular group you claim as witness, supporters, allies, refusing those who threatened violence, oppression?
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