Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[krtek a houby]

What else does it mean to be ‘gay’ - apart from to have sex (for enjoyment) with those of the same sex?

And those of us who have sex with any gender?

 

[purenarcotic]

Why would you be on the pill if you're a lesbian? You don't even have to have penetrative sex to get pregnant. As girls are warned in sex ed at school you can get pregnant without the male ejaculating, by transfer of semen in pre-cum from the penis by one or other of you's fingers. Seems an important concern to me.

Tbh that hadn’t even crossed my mind - I just like vaginas, don’t think that makes me a bigot and think it’s shit lesbians are getting told they are one for only liking it. All smacks a bit of some of the old things trotted out about how we just hadn’t found the right penis but if we just kept trying we would. Like people can’t cope with the idea we don’t need a penis to have enjoyable sex.

E2a - pregnancy not the concern for my lesbian friends either.

 

[Mation]

The entire debate is about what this actually means and yet you just repeat it as a truth undeniable. What's the point? Why were you happy with the term 'transwoman' if it literally means exactly the same thing as 'woman'?

What? Trans is a useful word for describing being trans; an experience that some women have and that some (most) others do not. I didn't say anything about the words meaning exactly the same thing.

 

[Mation]

Ok. What do you understand 'a woman' to be?

My point is the same.

Something that I can't and wouldn't attempt to describe. My point is the same.

 

[Thimble Queen]

I'm a bit confused about all the stuff about cocks tbh. Trans women that i know, only a handful tbf, have told me they don't want to use their penis in sex because of dysphoria and I understand that trans women who take hormones their penises don't get as hard, shrink and have other side effects. Is trans women wanting to fuck with a penis something lots of people have experienced?

 

[Pickman's model]

Why would you be on the pill if you're a lesbian? You don't even have to have penetrative sex to get pregnant. As girls are warned in sex ed at school you can get pregnant without the male ejaculating, by transfer of semen in pre-cum from the penis by one or other of you's fingers. Seems an important concern to me.

lesbians of my acquaintance have been on the pill because they found it eased period pains

 

[smokedout]

I'm a bit confused about all the stuff about cocks tbh. Trans women that i know, only a handful tbf, have told me they don't want to use their penis in sex because of dysphoria and I understand that trans women who take hormones their penises don't get as hard, shrink and have other side effects. Is trans women wanting to fuck with a penis something lots of people have experienced?

They are everywhere, hanging about on street corners demanding lesbians have sex with them and trailing them down the road screaming transphobe at them if they refuse. Either that or it's just a clumsy conversation about hetero-normativity, social conditioning and sexuality amongst a few queer teenagers on tumblr and youtube that's been blown out of all proportion by people with a wider political agenda.

 

[andysays]

They are everywhere, hanging about on street corners demanding lesbians have sex with them and trailing them down the road screaming transphobe at them if they refuse. Either that or it's just a clumsy conversation about hetero-normativity, social conditioning and sexuality amongst a few queer teenagers on tumblr and youtube that's been blown out of all proportion by people with a wider political agenda.

Not about the threatening tweets which, if I remember correctly, were sent by one of those involved in the incident which sparked this thread, the same person subsequently arrested, and posted here then?

It's one thing to argue that such things aren't representative (I've not seen anyone here claim they are BTW) but you seem to be denying that they even exist.

 

[Athos]

Something that I can't and wouldn't attempt to describe. My point is the same.

So you're point is no more than:

'Trans women are something I can't describe.'

That's cool. But hardly surprising that feminists who've sought to apply some critical thinking to this issue aren't queuing up to get on-board.

 

[Athos]

lesbians of my acquaintance have been on the pill because they found it eased period pains

They just told you they were lesbians, to let you down gently.

 

[Pickman's model]

They just told you they were lesbians, to let you down gently.

yeh cos no man can have a platonick relationship with a lesbian.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

So you're point is no more than:

'Trans women are something I can't describe.'

That's cool. But hardly surprising that feminists who've sought to apply some critical thinking to this issue aren't queuing up to get on-board.

The whole 'trans women are women' thing is a huge obstacle to debate, never mind conciliation, and usually comes with and 'end of' or 'no debate'. This means we are unable to have a meaningful discussion because the point central to contention is off limits.

 

[Shechemite]

They are everywhere, hanging about on street corners demanding lesbians have sex with them and trailing them down the road screaming transphobe at them if they refuse. Either that or it's just a clumsy conversation about hetero-normativity, social conditioning and sexuality amongst a few queer teenagers on tumblr and youtube that's been blown out of all proportion by people with a wider political agenda.

Lol

 

[bimble]

Miranda Yardley I'd be really interested to hear you spell out why you refer to yourself as transexual instead of the usual current terminology. If you go into this on your website please just post a link to the relevant place?

 

[belboid]

So you're point is no more than:

'Trans women are something I can't describe.'

That's cool. But hardly surprising that feminists who've sought to apply some critical thinking to this issue aren't queuing up to get on-board.

Lol, what patronising drivel. There are many feminists who have applied critical thinking that reject the terf outcome. In fact their thinking isn’t really critical at all, it’s a crude, simplistic, essentialist, argument that has been put forward by conservatives for decades. Their endpoint is the reactionary drivel being promoted by Yardley here.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Miranda Yardley I'd be really interested to hear you spell out why you refer to yourself as transexual instead of the usual current terminology. If you go into this on your website please just post a link to the relevant place?

Essentially because 'transgender' is a political umbrella encompassing a whole load of different things and is identity based. What is included as 'transgender' is incredibly broad, and includes a whole bunch of identities that are no more than just dressing up.

I still think 'transsexual' means something specific to myself and others, not least that I have put myself through some fairly brutal surgery to get where I am.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Lol, what patronising drivel. There are many feminists who have applied critical thinking that reject the terf outcome. In fact their thinking isn’t really critical at all, it’s a crude, simplistic, essentialist, argument that has been put forward by conservatives for decades. Their endpoint is the reactionary drivel being promoted by Yardley here.

I don't think you understand what 'essentialist' means. Please explain exactly what I promote that is 'reactionary drivel'. Thank you.

 

[Mation]

So you're point is no more than:

'Trans women are something I can't describe.'

That's cool. But hardly surprising that feminists who've sought to apply some critical thinking to this issue aren't queuing up to get on-board.

You are the most disingenuous poster on these boards.

 

[belboid]

I don't think you understand what 'essentialist' means. Please explain exactly what I promote that is 'reactionary drivel'. Thank you.

Your pseudo-scientific 'theory' is anti-rationalist, virtually conspiraloon, guff, and your denying of rights to those who have not undergone surgery leads fairly directly to more deaths of trans people.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Your pseudo-scientific 'theory' is anti-rationalist, virtually conspiraloon, guff, and your denying of rights to those who have not undergone surgery leads fairly directly to more deaths of trans people.

What rights have I denied anyone?

 

[smokedout]

Not about the threatening tweets which, if I remember correctly, were sent by one of those involved in the incident which sparked this thread, the same person subsequently arrested, and posted here then?

It's one thing to argue that such things aren't representative (I've not seen anyone here claim they are BTW) but you seem to be denying that they even exist.

I was talking about the claim transwomen are demanding people have sex with them and calling them transphobes if they refuse.

 

[smokedout]

What rights have I denied anyone?

Do you support repealing the 2004 GRA?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've just spent a little while following links from this resource page. I recommend it for anyone interested in finding out more about Blanchard and his chums.

Categorically wrong? A Bailey-Blanchard-Lawrence clearinghouse

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Do you support repealing the 2004 GRA?

I oppose it being changed to accommodate self-declaration, as this may mean trans people may be taken less seriously.

I see the proposed replacement of 'gender reassignment' with 'gender identity' a step backwards. 'Gender reassignment' actually means something, whereas protecting 'gender identity' protects just thoughts and feelings. To my mind, that would make bad law.

 

[smokedout]

I oppose it being changed to accommodate self-declaration, as this may mean trans people may be taken less seriously.

You are aware that many of the people you seem to be working with politically do want to repeal the 2004 act aren't you? Have you challenged them about that? What might that mean for you if it happens?

I see the proposed replacement of 'gender reassignment' with 'gender identity' a step backwards. 'Gender reassignment' actually means something, whereas protecting 'gender identity' protects just thoughts and feelings. To my mind, that would make bad law.

Do you think it should be legal for crossdressers or non-binary people to be refused housing or employment because of their gender identity? That's what this proposed law is about.

And as it was rejected by the Tories and Miller's bill ran out of time then this is unlikely to become law anyway. Which is a shame, because it would have represented a significant step in dismantling the state enforced gender binary.

 

[TopCat]

Your pseudo-scientific 'theory' is anti-rationalist, virtually conspiraloon, guff, and your denying of rights to those who have not undergone surgery leads fairly directly to more deaths of trans people.

Cunt mode firmly on bellend?

 

[belboid]

What rights have I denied anyone?

the right to have their gender identity recognised in law. Thus (for example) leaving transwomen in mens prisons where their likelihood of self harm, assault, and suicide is through the roof.

 

[belboid]

Cunt mode firmly on bellend?

Do you have an argument you would like to put forward?

 

[Athos]

You are the most disingenuous poster on these boards.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

You are aware that many of the people you seem to be working with politically do want to repeal the 2004 act aren't you? Have you challenged them about that? What might that mean for you if it happens?

I don't believe there is a realistic chance the 2004 GRA will be repealed.

Do you think it should be legal for crossdressers or non-binary people to be refused housing or employment because of their gender identity? That's what this proposed law is about.

And as it was rejected by the Tories and Miller's bill ran out of time then this is unlikely to become law anyway. Which is a shame, because it would have represented a significant step in dismantling the state enforced gender binary.

The reason it didn't become law was because parliament was dissolved as a result of the General Election. I have never ever suggested anyone should be refused housing or employment based on how they dress or their thoughts or their feelings or other faith. There is a better way to protect the rights of crossdressers and non-binary individuals than protecting the thoughts and feelings, or faith, of 'gender identity': just allow people to wear what they like.