This Morning. Phillip comes out as gay.

[Guineveretoo]

not sure they would

if i understand right, while in most cases the age of consent is 16, it's 18 if the older person is in a position of authority (e.g. teacher)

don't think it's a criminal law matter if both parties are over 18 and consenting

but fairly sure that most schools / colleges would have something in contracts of employment about getting in to sexual relationships with students whatever their age. it would probably depend on the specific contract.

some places have contracts about sexual relationships in the workplace - mcdonalds recently turfed out their CEO for a (we are told consensual) relationship with an employee

As above....

Plus, it is employment law, not criminal law.

 

[Guineveretoo]

For clarity and because it has moved up the thread, the post which established the scenario was this one:

If he was a teacher shagging an 18 year old he worked with, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be facing jail, no matter how grubby the age difference might seem.

 

[scifisam]

Again.

The scenario is work colleagues!

I know, but Spangles was quoting someone talking about a teacher and a student.

It is somewhat relevant if the bloke was actually a runner and Schofield was the host, because legally obvs he wouldn't be in a position to be prosecuted, but there are similarities in the power differentials.

And it is still IF so I'm not going to assume the story is true. I do think it's very, very likely that Schofield had an affair with someone and then came out because he was going to be outed but that doesn't necessarily mean it was this particular bloke. If a late forties married bloke had a fling with an 18 year old woman who relied on her job for him I'd also think it was creepy as fuck.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I know, but Spangles was quoting someone talking about a teacher and a student.

It is somewhat relevant if the bloke was actually a runner and Schofield was the host, because legally obvs he wouldn't be in a position to be prosecuted, but there are similarities in the power differentials.

And it is still IF so I'm not going to assume the story is true. I do think it's very, very likely that Schofield had an affair with someone and then came out because he was going to be outed but that doesn't necessarily mean it was this particular bloke. If a late forties married bloke had a fling with an 18 year old woman who relied on her job for him I'd also think it was creepy as fuck.

No - she quoted the post I quoted above!

 

[farmerbarleymow]

some places have contracts about sexual relationships in the workplace

There is a long-standing policy about workplace relationships at mine - it doesn't ban them of course, but forbids people in a relationship being in the same line-management chain - i.e.. one partner managing the other. Primarily to reduce the risk of internal fraud, and other things like unfair treatment, etc. It also applies to family members working there.

 

[scifisam]

No - she quoted the post I quoted above!

Spangles quoted a post saying:

If he was a teacher shagging an 18 year old he worked with, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be facing jail, no matter how grubby the age difference might seem.

And said that he would still be sacked.

Unless I'm somehow misreading? It's been known.

 

[purenarcotic]

For clarity and because it has moved up the thread, the post which established the scenario was this one:

We are interpreting it differently. I interpret ‘work with’ as teaches them, you are evidently interpreting it as work together as colleagues.

 

[kebabking]

We are interpreting it differently. I interpret ‘work with’ as teaches them, you are evidently interpreting it as work together as colleagues.

Indeed. An 18yo runner on minimum wage is no more a colleague of the several million pound a year National Treasure than an 18yo Private Soldier is a colleague of the Chief of the Defence Staff.

Unpaid, 18yo intern and President of the United States.

This stuff isn't difficult.

 

[strung out]

Spangles quoted a post saying:

If he was a teacher shagging an 18 year old he worked with, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be facing jail, no matter how grubby the age difference might seem.

And said that he would still be sacked.

Unless I'm somehow misreading? It's been known.

You misread. A teacher sleeping with someone they worked with, not someone they taught.

 

[strung out]

We are interpreting it differently. I interpret ‘work with’ as teaches them, you are evidently interpreting it as work together as colleagues.

Nah, you read it wrong.

 

[kabbes]

if somebody says a teacher is “working with” an 18 year old, this ambiguous phrase seems much more likely to mean “teaching” than “is a colleague of”. Because how many teachers have 18 year old colleagues? What would they be doing?

 

[purenarcotic]

Nah, you read it wrong.

Yes I’ve just said I interpreted differently, that’s the nature of written stuff innit, sometimes we read it differently. I’m not entirely sure what the purpose of your post is given I have already noted the difference in interpretation?

 

[Guineveretoo]

Spangles quoted a post saying:

If he was a teacher shagging an 18 year old he worked with, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be facing jail, no matter how grubby the age difference might seem.

And said that he would still be sacked.

Unless I'm somehow misreading? It's been known.

We are reading the original quote differently. "worked with" means colleagues in my mind.

 

[Guineveretoo]

We are interpreting it differently. I interpret ‘work with’ as teaches them, you are evidently interpreting it as work together as colleagues.

Indeed. Not least because that is what mirrors the (alleged) relationship which is being discussed.

 

[kabbes]

We are reading the original quote differently. "worked with" means colleagues in my mind.

Like I said, how many teachers do you know with 18 year old colleagues? How many with 18 year old pupils? On that basis, which is the more natural interpretation of the ambiguous phrase?

 

[Guineveretoo]

if somebody says a teacher is “working with” an 18 year old, this ambiguous phrase seems much more likely to mean “teaching” than “is a colleague of”. Because how many teachers have 18 year old colleagues? What would they be doing?

Except that the person who wrote it has explained what they meant.

And the rumour we are discussing is about a young member of staff and an older member of staff.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Like I said, how many teachers do you know with 18 year old colleagues? How many with 18 year old pupils? On that basis, which is the more natural interpretation of the ambiguous phrase?

When the discussion is about a rumour about an older guy having a relationship with a younger guy he works with, it is natural for me to have assumed that the "works with" meant work colleagues, not teacher/pupil.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Like I said, how many teachers do you know with 18 year old colleagues? How many with 18 year old pupils? On that basis, which is the more natural interpretation of the ambiguous phrase?

Treating that as a real question, none of the school teachers I know well have 18 year old pupils. Some of them have young colleagues, although I have no idea of the age of their young colleagues because it is not a discussion we ever had, but I do know that they have had school and college leavers coming to work with them, if that helps.

Not sure why you want to know that, though....

 

[scifisam]

You misread. A teacher sleeping with someone they worked with, not someone they taught.

OK. That really was not clear at all from what you wrote. I didn't misread, you miswrote.

Plus a teacher sleeping with an 18 year old they "worked with" but didn't teach could be in line for disciplinary procedures, if they were in their line of management. Especially if the difference in age was 30 years and the difference in line management was several £million.

Fuck's sake. If this all turns out to be a complete lie it will have done its work.

 

[andysays]

Nah, you read it wrong.

Actually, it appears to be you who has misread or misunderstood the original post mentioning teachers and going to jail, which was this one from likesfish which you then responded to as if he was talking about a co-worker rather than a pupil

bloke comes out as he was shagging an 18 yr old who threatened to out him that's not remotely "heroic" that's an entitled prick covering his own arse.
If he was a teacher he'd be facing jail.
The serious power imbalance in that relationship and dodgy as fuck straight or gay if a 57-year-old bloke was shagging my teenage kids he'd be looking at a broken Jaw
half your age plus 7.
Schofield is a dirty old man.

The implication in that post is quite clearly that of a teacher shagging a pupil, but the whole turn the thread has taken since is pretty much irrelevant to the situation under discussion because, even assuming the story as reported is broadly true, Schofield isn't abusing a position of formal trust in the way a teacher/pupil, social worker/client or even line manager/worker relationship would be.

While we might find it unwise, inappropriate or unsavoury (and I would, if it turns out to be as reported), the various comparisons made since are really not applicable to this situation.

 

[scifisam]

Treating that as a real question, none of the school teachers I know well have 18 year old pupils. Some of them have young colleagues, although I have no idea of the age of their young colleagues because it is not a discussion we ever had, but I do know that they have had school and college leavers coming to work with them, if that helps.

Not sure why you want to know that, though....

Not many schools employ 18 year olds (hardly any, I'd say, apart from on work experience). Lots of secondary schools have 18 year olds in their final year. When talking about teachers and 18 year olds in their school it's much more likely that the 18 year old is a pupil than a teacher.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Actually, it appears to be you who has misread or misunderstood the original post mentioning teachers and going to jail, which was this one from likesfish which you then responded to as if he was talking about a co-worker rather than a pupil



The implication in that post is quite clearly that of a teacher shagging a pupil, but the whole turn the thread has taken since is pretty much irrelevant to the situation under discussion because, even assuming the story as reported is broadly true, Schofield isn't abusing a position of formal trust in the way a teacher/pupil, social worker/client or even line manager/worker relationship would be.

While we might find it unwise, inappropriate or unsavoury (and I would, if it turns out to be as reported), the various comparisons made since are really not applicable to this situation.

Actually, I thought the later comment clarified it by emphasising that it is not a teacher/pupil thing but people working together. That is what I thought was happening....

 

[Guineveretoo]

Not many schools employ 18 year olds (hardly any, I'd say, apart from on work experience). Lots of secondary schools have 18 year olds in their final year. When talking about teachers and 18 year olds in their school it's much more likely that the 18 year old is a pupil than a teacher.

I understand that. I was answering a specific question.

And, as I say, I thought what we were doing here was talking about a rumour of an older guy having a sexual relationship with a much younger person he worked with - i.e. as colleagues - and that is what I was referring to when I said that the hypothetical teacher would win a hypothetical employment tribunal for unfair dismissal if they were sacked for having a relationship with a hypothetical adult colleague, regardless of the age difference.

 

[scifisam]

Actually, I thought the later comment clarified it by emphasising that it is not a teacher/pupil thing but people working together. That is what I thought was happening....

Strung out was the one who changed it from teacher and pupil to teacher and co-worker. But it really is really unlikely for there to be a teacher and co-worker where there's a 30 year age gap and not a huge imbalance of power and a mentoring relationship.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Strung out was the one who changed it from teacher and pupil to teacher and co-worker. But it really is really unlikely for there to be a teacher and co-worker where there's a 30 year age gap and not a huge imbalance of power and a mentoring relationship.

Because we were not talking about someone who abused that position of trust/power.

It is kind of sad that this thread has taken this odd turn, as if adults cannot have consensual sexual relationships with older people.

 

[andysays]

Actually, I thought the later comment clarified it by emphasising that it is not a teacher/pupil thing but people working together. That is what I thought was happening....

Possibly; the thread's become so confused that I'm not sure who is talking about what anymore

Anyway, I'm not going to pursue any of this any further unless there's some certainty what actually happened or didn't happen (and possibly not even then)

 

[Saul Goodman]

even assuming the story as reported is broadly true, Schofield isn't abusing a position of formal trust in the way a teacher/pupil, social worker/client or even line manager/worker relationship would be.

While we might find it unwise, inappropriate or unsavoury (and I would, if it turns out to be as reported), the various comparisons made since are really not applicable to this situation.

If the story does turn out to be true, I fail to see how it's any different to a teacher having an affair with a pupil. The power imbalance is the same, if not worse. Schofield was not only this lad's mentor, he also, potentially, had the power to positively or negatively affect the lad's future in the industry. That's a serious power imbalance, and, if true, is every bit as bad as a teacher having an affair with a pupil, IMO.

 

[Guineveretoo]

If the story does turn out to be true, I fail to see how it's any different to a teacher having an affair with a pupil. The power imbalance is the same, if not worse. Schofield was not only this lad's mentor, he also, potentially, had the power to positively or negatively affect the lad's future in the industry. That's a serious power imbalance, and, if true, is every bit as bad as a teacher having an affair with a pupil, IMO.

It is a very different impact from a teacher and a pupil! And, it is not illegal, which it would have been if it had been a teacher and a pupil.

 

[Saul Goodman]

It is a very different impact from a teacher and a pupil! And, it is not illegal, which it would have been if it had been a teacher and a pupil.

The only difference, in my mind, is the legality.

 

[strung out]

if somebody says a teacher is “working with” an 18 year old, this ambiguous phrase seems much more likely to mean “teaching” than “is a colleague of”. Because how many teachers have 18 year old colleagues? What would they be doing?

But in this context it would be utterly meaningless because the relationship between a TV presenter and stagehand is not the same as a teacher and pupil.