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This Morning. Phillip comes out as gay.

Sound like bullshit to me. No gay man can't find dates because they appear "too straight" for so many reasons, I can't even be bothered...

No, he could get dates very easily, and did, but he wanted something more serious and long-term, to rent a flat together and that, and guys assumed he was just experimenting. He was just very laddish, but not in a bear way or anything like that - he just came across as a straight bloke, somehow. Pretty sure he had no reason to bullshit to me, and I have no reason to bullshit you either.
 
One of my best friends was asked to leave a gay bar because they thought he was straight! Ended up in a row about the need to be straight friendly anyway and not assume that everyone who looks straight is an enemy. This was in the 80s.
That could happen, especially in the 80s, but its an entirely different issue. Homophobia still was much worse then it is now and LGBT+ venues had to be vigilant and would have been getting it wrong occasionally . It happened to me that I was at least questioned, trying to get into a gay venue where I wasn't a regular.

The idea that a gay man can't get dates because they appear "so, so straight" is ludicrous on an number of levels.

It is in fact a quality highly desirable with a lot of gay men. You'll find the description "straight acting" on a lot of gay dating profiles and it is controversial. It assumes that there is such a thing as gay- or straight acting and it is supposed to exclude more effeminate/camp men. There is some internalised homophobia at play.

I'm usually assumed to be straight by other straight people and so are most of my gay friends. Some gay men present as very masculine, which I suppose would be "so, so" straight, its as much a spectrum as straight men and women.

We usually don't find dates randomly by walking down the street. We are a small minority so the chances for that are small. We go on gay dating websites and apps or gay venues to meet mates, possible shags and partners. Once in such an environment, you will be assumed to be gay, no matter how you present.
 
One of my best friends was asked to leave a gay bar because they thought he was straight! Ended up in a row about the need to be straight friendly anyway and not assume that everyone who looks straight is an enemy. This was in the 80s.

One of my best nights our started with us being asked to prove we were lesbians to enter GAY at the Astoria, and being asked whether we read specific magazines. One of my friends said no, but I can tell you what fanny smells like. :D

(I was always secretly offended that I never got asked those questions despite being really fucking femme in my 20s).
 
No, he could get dates very easily, and did, but he wanted something more serious and long-term, to rent a flat together and that, and guys assumed he was just experimenting. He was just very laddish, but not in a bear way or anything like that - he just came across as a straight bloke, somehow. Pretty sure he had no reason to bullshit to me, and I have no reason to bullshit you either.
There are all sorts of reasons why many gay men are bad at long term relationships, but being "laddish" or seeming too straight isn't one of them. That is perpetuating harmful stereotypes. Most gay men are clued up enough that they wouldn't simply assume someone is just experimenting if they aren't other indicators for that. We are able to communicate these things like anybody else. Fact is, many of us aren't great at long time relationships and maybe that's how he rationalised that to himself. Just because you have "a story" doesn't make it a universal fact for gay men in general.
 
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From my own experiences, which are not those of every gay or bi person, I've had people question whether I was gay or straight. These people were either gay or straight themselves. My "gaydar" doesn't always work, either. I've met people who I was sure were straight but turns out they weren't. What I'm saying is, there's no one way to "be" gay or bi, and there's no one way to determine whether another person is or isn't. I was told that I couldn't be with a woman, once, because her gay friends insisted that I was gay. Been told by gay and straight people that there's no such thing as bisexual. You either are, or aren't. It seems to me that there are always others who want to explain to you what you are and just won't accept who you are.

Being told how to behave/act/think is a situation that many LGBT folks have encountered, at least once or twice in their lives.
 
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There are all sorts of reasons why many gay men are bad at long term relationships, but being "laddish" or seeming too straight isn't one of them. That is perpetuating harmful stereotypes. Most gay men are clued up enough that they wouldn't simply assume someone is just experimenting if they aren't other indicators for that. Fact is, many of us aren't great at long time relationships and maybe that's how he rationalised that to himself. Just because you have "a story" doesn't make it a universal fact for gay men.

I didn't say it was a universal fact for gay men, and I was responding to a gay man who was saying that being seen as straight when you're actually gay can be annoying with an anecdote about a friend of mine. I think it's fairly well known on here that I'm as gay as you are, so I didn't feel the need to add that.
 
Coming to this thread late because I didn't know it was here, but I have a very similar story that happened to a the mother of a childhood friend of mine and she only found out 3 months ago. Her husband has left her.

It wouldn't surprise me if Phil had been getting his rocks off for a while because the story just seems *so*similar to that of my Mum's friend. Let's call her K, the husband S, and the person on the other side A.

My friend has a younger sister. Let's call her N. N was 15 at the time when K found a phone lying around. K had presumed that the phone belonged to a friend of N and so gave her the phone in order to find the rightful owner. Said phone had, shall we say, a lot of dodgy messages from someone called A and when N confronted her dad S about it, he basically admitted that he was gay, and made N promise not to tell her mother.

This poor child had to keep her Dad's closeted secret for 15 years while the affair continued.

Fast forward 15 years. N is now 30+, none of the children live at home. They are both retired. K is now 65+ and S "suddenly" comes out and leaves home shacking up with the other guy. K says that so much stuffed clicked into place. Things that had made no sense to her, regarding sex life, "work" time away from family, endless sporting trips, etc, suddenly made sense.

Everyone including mine, has the attitude that if the dude's gay, then he's gay, and there's really not a lot anyone can do about it. Better to come out than not at all and the kids haven't been particularly effected, they have left home after all and have their own families now.... but

I do not think any of this is particularly brave. It has been devastating for K who at 50 years old when N found his phone could have still moved on (had S done the decent thing then), but instead she continued being his housewife and gave up her career to raise his kids, she was totally dependant on him (he is very successful in his field), and basically feels like she was used as a prop in his life. They were together for over 40 years, and she is coming to terms that that 40 years was a sham. She's also pissed off, rightly IMO that any hope that she might have had a semblance of a chance at finding a fulfilling relationship at 65, with a man who loved her in the way she wanted to be, is basically nil, and that she had no choice in the matter because that choice was taken from her.

She now faces the last years of her life in a big empty house. Alone. While S pops around to check occasionally that she is OK and then goes back to A.

S says that everything they worked towards in the marriage, all the material success they build together is still theirs and A won't have a dime of any of it.

A saving grace I suppose.

Either way, I can't help thinking the dude is a massive arsehole. Gay or not hiding your affairs for 15 years? Expecting other people to cover for your secret while you take full advantage of the woman in domestic servitude at home, who raises your kids and cooks your meals while you swan about, completely out of the closet in one area of your life but keeping it a secret from the person who is raising your kids, lying to her, and then expecting adulation while you leave her to the last 10 years of her life alone with no one?

Get to fuck mate.

At least Phil didn't leave it 40 years, but still, his poor, poor wife.
 
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From my own experiences, which are not those of every gay or bi person, I've had people question whether I was gay or straight. These people were either gay or straight themselves. My "gaydar" doesn't always work, either. I've met people who I was sure were straight but turns out they weren't. What I'm saying is, there's no one way to "be" gay or bi, and there's no one way to determine whether another person is or isn't. I was told that I couldn't be with a woman, once, because her gay friends insisted that I was gay. Been told by gay and straight people that there's no such thing as bisexual. You either are, or aren't. It seems to me that there are always others who want to explain to you what you are and just won't accept who you are.

Being told how to behave/act/think is a situation that many LGBT folks have encountered, at least once or twice in their lives.

ETA changed "her gay friends insisted that I wasn't gay" to "insisted that I was gay." Duh!
 
There are other ways that performance and relations work than being in a relationship. But those ways don’t include performatively and relationally acting out a completely different identity. You don’t have some special secret self that you keep hidden. You are what you do, the relationships you maintain, the things you say.

That’s why it’s so painful to live in a way incongruent with how you feel, of course. Because you don’t get to be one thing in your heart and another thing in reality. Your reality defines you regardless of whether you want it or not.

Reality includes the thoughts and feelings that we keep to ourselves, in our minds, our physical arousal, bodily experience, unobserved by others.

This psychological theory, does it only accept that which is observable by others to be real?
 
This story suggests Schofields sexuality was known for 2 years before his public coming out.



I dont really care about that.
And my post was not about this.
 
bloke comes out as he was shagging an 18 yr old who threatened to out him that's not remotely "heroic" that's an entitled prick covering his own arse.
If he was a teacher he'd be facing jail.
The serious power imbalance in that relationship and dodgy as fuck straight or gay if a 57-year-old bloke was shagging my teenage kids he'd be looking at a broken Jaw
half your age plus 7.
Schofield is a dirty old man.
 
I dont really care about that.
And my post was not about this.

I should have stayed the obvious that if that article is accurate then it’s likely that his wife knew her hubby was gay for some time now.

But yeah, it’s her I feel sorry for.
 
bloke comes out as he was shagging an 18 yr old who threatened to out him that's not remotely "heroic" that's an entitled prick covering his own arse.
If he was a teacher he'd be facing jail.
The serious power imbalance in that relationship and dodgy as fuck straight or gay if a 57-year-old bloke was shagging my teenage kids he'd be looking at a broken Jaw
half your age plus 7.
Schofield is a dirty old man.
If he was a teacher shagging an 18 year old he worked with, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be facing jail, no matter how grubby the age difference might seem.
 
Reality includes the thoughts and feelings that we keep to ourselves, in our minds, our physical arousal, bodily experience, unobserved by others.

This psychological theory, does it only accept that which is observable by others to be real?
No it doesn't and of course you are right. But bear in mind the context in which I was raising this in the first place. I was questioning what the announcement actually meant in the context of somebody in a monogamous relationship with a woman who intended to stay in that monogamous relationship with that woman. The fact that you might be aroused by a woman other than your wife in those circumstances is not something that I think is generally worth remarking on, advisable to broadcast or respectful of anybody involved. I can't see that any of that changes just because it is a man you find arousing instead.
 
They would win an employment tribunal on grounds of unfair dismissal, then!

Would they? They hold a position of trust and power, shagging a school student is surely a huge breach of that. I would have thought it would say in their contract they can’t; it’s very clear in mine that a sexual relationship with a service user is a gross misconduct issue.
 
They would win an employment tribunal on grounds of unfair dismissal, then!

not sure they would

if i understand right, while in most cases the age of consent is 16, it's 18 if the older person is in a position of authority (e.g. teacher)

don't think it's a criminal law matter if both parties are over 18 and consenting

but fairly sure that most schools / colleges would have something in contracts of employment about getting in to sexual relationships with students whatever their age. it would probably depend on the specific contract.

some places have contracts about sexual relationships in the workplace - mcdonalds recently turfed out their CEO for a (we are told consensual) relationship with an employee
 
Whatever about Phillip Schofield's actions and the fallout for his wife which is pretty dramatic and devastating for her ......the age of consent in the UK is 16 and the young man allegedly involved with Schofield was 18 when the alleged affair began. 18 is an adult whether we like it or not. Also, 18 year olds today are more informed on their sexual rights than any previous generation.

Having said all of that....the young man was obviously not in a position of power and schofield by virtue of his experience, seniority, status had significant power.
They were not in any way shape or form on a level footing. So...Schofield was a fucking fool at very least and could be viewed as manipulative and potentially predatory at most, to pursue anything with the young man.
 
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They would win an employment tribunal on grounds of unfair dismissal, then!

No, they wouldn't.

Not only are such things prohibited within a teacher's contract of employment - in my wife's LA it also precludes having a relationship with any former pupil of whatever age and however long after they stopped being a pupil - the age of consent is 18 when it's a relationship with a person in a 'position of trust', which consent bit relating not just to sex, but the beginning of the relationship/the grooming.

It not something I've looked at, but I wouldn't actually be surprised if the age of consent thing (I'm pretty sure it's teachers and social workers) taste until they leave the care of that individual, so just because a sixth form pupil turned 18 in say, the October of the academic year, it would still be a criminal offence for a teacher to start a relationship (not just sex) with them until that teacher ceased being in a position of trust.

If the story alleged is true, then Schofield is as grubby and predatory as any other 57yo who fucks an 18yo who works for him - the gay/straightness of the situation is no more relevant than whether they are a redhead or brunette.
 
Would they? They hold a position of trust and power, shagging a school student is surely a huge breach of that. I would have thought it would say in their contract they can’t; it’s very clear in mine that a sexual relationship with a service user is a gross misconduct issue.

Completely different scenario. The scenario under discussion is work colleagues!
 
No, they wouldn't.

Not only are such things prohibited within a teacher's contract of employment - in my wife's LA it also precludes having a relationship with any former pupil of whatever age and however long after they stopped being a pupil - the age of consent is 18 when it's a relationship with a person in a 'position of trust', which consent bit relating not just to sex, but the beginning of the relationship/the grooming.

It not something I've looked at, but I wouldn't actually be surprised if the age of consent thing (I'm pretty sure it's teachers and social workers) taste until they leave the care of that individual, so just because a sixth form pupil turned 18 in say, the October of the academic year, it would still be a criminal offence for a teacher to start a relationship (not just sex) with them until that teacher ceased being in a position of trust.

If the story alleged is true, then Schofield is as grubby and predatory as any other 57yo who fucks an 18yo who works for him - the gay/straightness of the situation is no more relevant than whether they are a redhead or brunette.
As I say - the scenario is not of a teacher and pupil but of a teacher and a work colleague who is a teenager.

you are right about teacher and students or other service users, but that is not what is under discussion.
 
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