krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Interesting. It was "all true" a couple of minutes ago.
The Virgin Mary
- Thread starter Humberto
- Start date
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
You posted nothing. I have rarely met anyone as dishonest. Tellingly, you didn't answer the question about whether lying is a sin in your world.I posted all about that above and was scalded for it. The links remain, above. Please go luck at them, dummy
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Lay off the booze, stop threatening people and go get some sleep.
Humberto
Well-Known Member
Yyyep you knew all about them
A true friend is hard to find. Accepted.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Let it be
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
From that Bible that people occasionally appeal to, without reading it:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
At this point I truly can't decide if you're a thicko or a troll. Or both.
andysays
Love and solidarity
In the case of Catholics (again, can't speak for anyone else) it's not just what average believers believe, it's the explicit position of the Church since the second Vatican Council that non believers who try to live a righteous life won't be punished for not believing.
Fundamentalists who disagree with this are not just stupid, exclusive and intolerant, they are also at odds with Catholic teaching.
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ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
Well, they weren't for most of the church's existence. But never mind about that now, eh?
Also, can you link to something backing up that assertion about the second Vatican council?
But again, as I ask with no real hope of an answer -- if you don't have to believe in a lot of unprovable and frankly unlikely things in order to be saved, what on earth is the point of it all?
Also, can you link to something backing up that assertion about the second Vatican council?
But again, as I ask with no real hope of an answer -- if you don't have to believe in a lot of unprovable and frankly unlikely things in order to be saved, what on earth is the point of it all?
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I edited my post. I’d read yours too quickly. Is that a problem ?
I tried to be agreeable, but that is getting difficult
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Look, person, this is just your opinion. Your missionary zeal is misplaced here - none of that post has any basis in reality.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Half true
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Punished, maybe not I guess it depends on your definition
But it still holds that all are born with original sin and will die with such unless they are baptised, it still teaches that it is the one true church, that it alone is the means of salvation, and that those who die without repenting will go to Hell.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
I was reared post Vatican 2 .
This may be something you have not seen ouirdeaux It's from Vatican 2. You asked about ecumenical outreach...
If you have no interest in the spiritual and no belief in God then none of this will be relevant to you. However you have shown an independent knowledge of scripture but you may not have read much about post 1965 Catholicism.
The stated effort is towards peace between all Abrahamic religions. Respect for all belief systems ... the document is clear on that..here's a snippet..
"Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. "
... it does strike me as sincere.
You seem to want to blame all Christians alive today for what happened in the Crusades. When the reality is that the Church has been and is working for ecuminism.
There are radical fundmentalists who are working to destroy that ecuminism. Trying to divide people. It's evident in the middle east.. and in far right parties in europe...and the far right in the US. Modern Christian churches do not condone radicalism or fundamentalism just as the majority of people of Islam do not condone radicalisation. Just as the majority of Jews do not condone Zionism.
I note that you have read the bible. You've studied it. You're obviously seriously interested in it. I would think you've read it more than I have.. It might be of interest to you to examine Vatican 2 documents to see how the Church has developed since biblical times.
I don't particularly like aggro. Definitely not my scene at all. I have too much going on healthwise to get further involved. And your personal attacks on me on this thread were unsettling to say the least.
I am replying to you now because nobody has given you any info on Vatican2 and on the off chance that you may actually want to read some of it?
I'm pretty sure you can find some answers to some of your questions there. I'm posting them not just for you but for the sake of someone in the future who might stumble on this thread and want to know more about the Vatican 2 documents it's no harm posting a link to the relevant one.
My health is not great. I've a lot going on and it's looking like there is another serious issue rearing it's head. I need to conserve what little energy I have. So I respectfully ask that you not come back at me with aggression and accusations of "dishonesty" because I post a Vatican 2 document. Read it as a document... without prejudice.
Peace to all. Take care of yourselves and each other. There is more similarity than difference among us all.
This may be something you have not seen ouirdeaux It's from Vatican 2. You asked about ecumenical outreach...
Nostra aetate
Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-christian religions - Nostra aetate
www.vatican.va
If you have no interest in the spiritual and no belief in God then none of this will be relevant to you. However you have shown an independent knowledge of scripture but you may not have read much about post 1965 Catholicism.
The stated effort is towards peace between all Abrahamic religions. Respect for all belief systems ... the document is clear on that..here's a snippet..
"Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. "
... it does strike me as sincere.
You seem to want to blame all Christians alive today for what happened in the Crusades. When the reality is that the Church has been and is working for ecuminism.
There are radical fundmentalists who are working to destroy that ecuminism. Trying to divide people. It's evident in the middle east.. and in far right parties in europe...and the far right in the US. Modern Christian churches do not condone radicalism or fundamentalism just as the majority of people of Islam do not condone radicalisation. Just as the majority of Jews do not condone Zionism.
I note that you have read the bible. You've studied it. You're obviously seriously interested in it. I would think you've read it more than I have.. It might be of interest to you to examine Vatican 2 documents to see how the Church has developed since biblical times.
I don't particularly like aggro. Definitely not my scene at all. I have too much going on healthwise to get further involved. And your personal attacks on me on this thread were unsettling to say the least.
I am replying to you now because nobody has given you any info on Vatican2 and on the off chance that you may actually want to read some of it?
I'm pretty sure you can find some answers to some of your questions there. I'm posting them not just for you but for the sake of someone in the future who might stumble on this thread and want to know more about the Vatican 2 documents it's no harm posting a link to the relevant one.
My health is not great. I've a lot going on and it's looking like there is another serious issue rearing it's head. I need to conserve what little energy I have. So I respectfully ask that you not come back at me with aggression and accusations of "dishonesty" because I post a Vatican 2 document. Read it as a document... without prejudice.
Peace to all. Take care of yourselves and each other. There is more similarity than difference among us all.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
There's nothing trivial about liking or disliking Marmite. The whole issue dwarfs piffling disputes about communion wine and bread. Does the consecrated host have Marmite on it? Or not? That's the important question.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Only unleavened bread. Very bland tasting
PTK
Paul Kegan
I think you are trolling.
PTK
Paul Kegan
"I'm in love with a stereotype" could be the title of a song from the late 1970s by X-Ray Spex
PTK
Paul Kegan
Well you appeared to justifying the "smiting" of other tribes.
PTK
Paul Kegan
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the wine and the bread consumed in Communion literally changes into the blood and flesh of Jesus.
Many people were tortured, and many killed, in defence of this apparent misunderstanding of a metaphor. The lesson of which, I suppose, is that metaphors are dangerous. They don’t teach you that is school English lessons.
It is generous to call it a “misunderstanding”. Making an outlandish claim is a technique used by dictatorships (in which category I am placing monarchies) to secure subservience. The subjects hear the outrageous claim, and their reason revolts against it, but they are forced to acquiesce in the claim, at threat of violence. They are then psychologically broken, and accept the rule of the dictatorship. Members of out groups will ridicule the claim, and this ridicule will make members of the in group feel closer. The root of the word “religion” after all is “to bind”.
Another outlandish claim, the reaction of others to which acts to bind group more closely, is that blood transfusions are harmful and must never ever take place, which is a doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses church.
The Stalin regime in the former USSR made a number of outlandish claims that served a similar purpose.
The doctrine of transubstantiation in effect says that believers engage in an act of cannibalism every Sunday.
Many people were tortured, and many killed, in defence of this apparent misunderstanding of a metaphor. The lesson of which, I suppose, is that metaphors are dangerous. They don’t teach you that is school English lessons.
It is generous to call it a “misunderstanding”. Making an outlandish claim is a technique used by dictatorships (in which category I am placing monarchies) to secure subservience. The subjects hear the outrageous claim, and their reason revolts against it, but they are forced to acquiesce in the claim, at threat of violence. They are then psychologically broken, and accept the rule of the dictatorship. Members of out groups will ridicule the claim, and this ridicule will make members of the in group feel closer. The root of the word “religion” after all is “to bind”.
Another outlandish claim, the reaction of others to which acts to bind group more closely, is that blood transfusions are harmful and must never ever take place, which is a doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses church.
The Stalin regime in the former USSR made a number of outlandish claims that served a similar purpose.
The doctrine of transubstantiation in effect says that believers engage in an act of cannibalism every Sunday.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Daesh is an organisation, not tribe or ethnic group
JimW
支那暗杀团
In Dante the virtuous pagans are in an afterlife that suits their predilections just denied the light of God because they lived before the chance to hear Jesus, Socrates hanging out talking philosophy for eternity as he wanted. Think that's always been the broad view of mainstream Catholics, that being good but not in Christ is unfortunate but not evil and to be punished.
