The Virgin Mary

[PTK]

One of many valid questions that believers rarely if ever address. If only Jesus' death can redeem humans, what's the story with those who, for no fault of their own, happened to be born before he was a twinkle in his father's eye? Bad luck, shit happens, eh?

That was a problem that was tackled with respect to the Ancient Greek thinkers, who were admired by the Church. These fine thinkers could surely not have been banished to the fires of Hell?

The answer was that they would be in Purgatory, where their souls would be purified.

 

[bcuster]

One of many valid questions that believers rarely if ever address. If only Jesus' death can redeem humans, what's the story with those who, for no fault of their own, happened to be born before he was a twinkle in his father's eye? Bad luck, shit happens, eh?

No, they were redeemed by the Resurrection

Where did people who died before Christ go?

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, before the Resurrection, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam and Eve, and all the righteous were in the Limbo of the F...

www.catholic.com

 

[ouirdeaux]

That was a problem that was tackled with respect to the Ancient Greek thinkers, who were admired by the Church. These fine thinkers could surely not have been banished to the fires of Hell?

The answer was that they would be in Purgatory, where their souls would be purified.

I'm not sure that works. As I understand it, Purgatory is where those who are saved (by virtue of their belief in Jesus) have to work off the sins they've committed in their lives. After all, it wouldn't be fair if a multiple murderer turned to Christ at on their deathbed, made a confession and died before even a violent thought could have crossed their mind, just waltzed into heaven next to a pious churchgoer whose worst sin was putting dead matches back in the box. There has to be some penalty.

But if you're not in the club (which you can't be if you were born before it all), that option isn't open to you.

 

[bcuster]

There really are real, logical & valid answers to all your questions

Catholic Faith, Beliefs, & Prayers | Catholic Answers

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[ouirdeaux]

You've been told off before for failing to explain your position, in the manner of a rational adult, and just posting links.

Except you can't even post links.

O sancta simplicitas! Not in a good way.

 

[krtek a houby]

There really are real, logical & valid answers to all your questions

Catholic Faith, Beliefs, & Prayers | Catholic Answers

Explore the Largest Catholic Database: Beliefs, Practices, Articles, Books, Videos.

www.catholic.com

Relevant Radio - America’s Talk Radio Network for Catholics

Relevant Radio is your home for great Catholic radio, podcasts, news and information.

relevantradio.com

EWTN Global Catholic Television Network: Catholic News, TV, Radio | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

Give us some actual logic, rather than opinion and endless links, so.

 

[bcuster]

I think the real thing going on amongst the obstinate faithless is that they have no questions. Dark cynicism is their preferred manner of approaching faith

 

[bcuster]

Give us some actual logic, rather than opinion and endless links, so.

These aren't opinions. These are links that contain answers to your "questions"

 

[bcuster]

I'm not going to bicker for page after page on this forum. THERE ARE ANSWERS AVAILABLE TO YOUR QUESTIONS

 

[krtek a houby]

I'm not going to bicker for page after page on this forum. when THERE ARE ANSWERS AVAILABLE TO YOUR QUESTIONS

There are no definitive answers when it comes to matters fantastical or divine. Only opinions and conjecture.

 

[ouirdeaux]

I think the real thing going on amongst the obstinate faithless is that they have no questions.

Oh, we have questions, assuming you're numbering me amongst the obstinate faithless, and you are. They've been posted. You just don't answer them. You just spam your links, being either stupid, or dishonest, or both.

 

[bcuster]

Oh, we have questions, assuming you're numbering me amongst the obstinate faithless, and you are. They've been posted. You just don't answer them. You just spam your links, being either stupid, or dishonest, or both.

The links are not spam. They are valuable resources that've provided answers to thousands of questions presented by those truly seeking knowledge or just information about the Catholic faith,

You just want to bicker and make personal attacks and insults

 

[ouirdeaux]

If you actively defended your position, whatever it is, instead of just posting links, I'd respect you, however much I might disagree with you.

You don't. You just continue mindlessly spamming, and bleat when challenged on it.

 

[PTK]

If you actively defended your position, whatever it is, instead of just posting links, I'd respect you, however much I might disagree with you.

You don't. You just continue mindlessly spamming, and bleat when challenged on it.

It's a bit like an MP simply posting links to the party manifesto rather than actually answering the questions.

 

[Richard46]

Well, quite. It's pick and mix. Believers pick the bits they like, and explain the bits they don't like by claiming that's it's all a metaphor, or to be explained by the culture of the times, or whatever is the flavour of the month for trying to say that words don't mean what they say. Whether you tell people to kill every suspected heretic, and let God sort them out, or sit about with a gormless grin on your face singing Kumbaya, you can justify it, and say that everyone else just isn't getting it.

One of my faves is Matthew21 were Jesus rides into Jerusalem on a stolen donkey to condemn the money lenders as robbers.

As they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, "Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, tell him that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away."

 

[Humberto]

Technically his donkey though.

 

[bcuster]

The owner of the donkey voluntarily turned it over

 

[bcuster]

A good way to bother the moderation is to engage in tit for tat arguing with antagonistic provocateurs . I've posted valid links. I'm not doing
a press conference. Read the links or continue on in ignorance

 

[Aladdin]

I give you Matthew 10 34-39

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Jesus as a man of peace is a selective reading of the gospel. I commend those who select the peaceful bits but it is still selective.

I always took that to mean that allegiance to Christ and the gospel will create division and separation, even to the extent of dividing family members.. And it happened for roughly 400 years when the Romans persecuted the Christians..it has happened to Christians in Asia and especially Communist countries .. It's happening in parts of Africa and Asia and will happen again closer to home...as Christians become more and more persecuted and more people are falling away from Christianity ... for all sorts of reasons, not least of which the appalling actions of a few . ."few" in number relative to the overall numbers of Christians.

World watch list for 2023 and 2024

World Watch List 2024

The 2024 World Watch List The World Watch List is Open Doors’ annual ranking of the 50 countries where Christians face the most...

www.opendoorsus.org

One in 7 Christians worldwide is persecuted for their religious beliefs.

 

[Aladdin]

You've been told off before for failing to explain your position, in the manner of a rational adult, and just posting links.

Except you can't even post links.

O sancta simplicitas! Not in a good way.

Lol..look at you...telling people off ..like you're the most perfect poster here .
Yet you've been nasty and tossed out personal attacks on this thread.

 

[Aladdin]

Give us some actual logic, rather than opinion and endless links, so.

You have always struck me as someone who is well capable of searching for answers?

 

[Aladdin]

One of my faves is Matthew21 were Jesus rides into Jerusalem on a stolen donkey to condemn the money lenders as robbers.

As they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, "Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, tell him that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away."

And he trashed not only the money lenders but kicked out the stalls selling birds and animals..that were bought to be sacrificed in the temple. Good on him..I say.

 

[Aladdin]

You've been told off before for failing to explain your position, in the manner of a rational adult, and just posting links.

Except you can't even post links.

O sancta simplicitas! Not in a good way.

Any chance you could learn to quote posts ?
It's really quite annoying when you answer someone but don't quote them. It reads as disjointed.

There used to be another poster on here...who did that a lot. Never got to grips with the quote function. They liked to harass and hound someone...got banned eventually. Are you related?

 

[Aladdin]

Oh, we have questions, assuming you're numbering me amongst the obstinate faithless, and you are. They've been posted. You just don't answer them. You just spam your links, being either stupid, or dishonest, or both.

There you go with the royal we...
Maybe read some of the material posted by the op...and quit the name calling. You've done this a lot here. Calling posters dishonest and stupid. What you're really trying to do is to say that in your view anyone who has a belief system is stupid...because in your mind there is no God no creator...nobody here has mocked you for that. Maybe you should leave this thread if religion is not for you.
I think the OP may have posted this thread for those who do have an actual faith..thinking there might be more than one Christian on the boards. It's looking like there are just two or three posting on the thread...and then theres you and one othet who really don't like Christianity...and possibly detest Catholics.

Isn't it weird though? That you keep on posting thar Christianity and Christians...nay..all religion is irrational and woo. That's your opinion ... you surely know that there are many people who find something beneficial in their faith. And who are you to say that your way is better?

 

[Richard46]

The owner of the donkey voluntarily turned it over

Yea of course he did. And to slightly misquote Capt James Kirk why does the Son of God need a donkey?

 

[Aladdin]

Yea of course he did. And to slightly misquote Capt James Kirk why does the Son of God need a donkey?

Because his feet hurt? From all that walking in bad sandals?

 

[ouirdeaux]

Any chance you could learn to quote posts ?
It's really quite annoying when you answer someone but don't quote them. It reads as disjointed.

I've quoted your words here, as there are three intervening posts, and if I didn't, it wouldn't be clear what I was referring to.

I didn't quote bcuster in the post you were objecting to, because mine immediately followed theirs, and it was obvious that it referred to it.

I don't know what other poster you are referring to, but I've never been anyone else, or banned. You really are dishonest to the core, aren't you? You pretend to be all sweetness and light, but can't resist the sly digs, however unjustified. I believe the biblical term for that sort of hypocrisy is whited sepulchre.

 

[Aladdin]

You really are dishonest to the core, aren't you? You pretend to be all sweetness and light, but can't resist the sly digs, however unjustified. I believe the biblical term for that sort of hypocrisy is whited sepulchre.

No sly digs but yours.
Again with the personal attacks.
I'm not dishonest. I'll defend myself when someone starts getting personal..which was what you did day one on this thread with me.

You still have not apologised for these. And you persist in calling me dishonest? What are you talking about?

Which doesn't refer to animal sacrifice. Try honesty, even if it goes against your Catholic principles. It's oddly refreshing.

That poster regularly posts on religious threads, invariably takes offence, and flounces. More comebacks than Frank Sinatra. And to her it's all a sectarian attack. She is impervious to reason, and doesn't really listen to anyone. Still, she's welcome to live in her own little world. I doubt anyone wants to share it, whatever religion they are.

 

[Aladdin]

You really are dishonest to the core, aren't you? You pretend to be all sweetness and light, but can't resist the sly digs, however unjustified. I believe the biblical term for that sort of hypocrisy is whited sepulchre.

"Whited sepulchre."...your words.
"a person inwardly corrupt or wicked but outwardly or professedly virtuous or holy..."
You actually think I'm "inwardly corrupt or wicked but outwardly virtuous or holy"?

Are you real?

 

[ouirdeaux]

"Whited sepulchre."...your words.

Strictly speaking, they were the words of Jesus.