The Truth About Chlorinated Chicken review – Channel 4 doc

[Sasaferrato]

I thought Ed was vegetarian anyway?

 

[8ball]

And this in the most litigious country on the planet?

It tends not to be rich people keeling over.

 

[Teaboy]

This idea of let people choose is so naive as to be childlike. Its amazing that anyone thinks that the food will be properly labelled. Before its even hit our shelves it has a bad rep, this will be considered by the US to be unfair trading and as such it will be written into the agreement that labeling cannot be seen as prejudicial to fair trade.

Its amazing that some people are struggling to grasp this basic concept of how trade works. Its almost as if they've had no experience of it at all in the world yet still feel qualified to pontificate on it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

This idea of let people choose is so naive as to be childlike. Its amazing that anyone thinks that the food will be properly labelled. Before its even hit our shelves it has a bad rep, this will be considered by the US to be unfair trading and as such it will be written into the agreement that labeling cannot be seen as prejudicial to fair trade.

Its amazing that some people are struggling to grasp this basic concept of how trade works. Its almost as if they've had no experience of it at all in the world yet still feel qualified to pontificate on it.

What like people jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions you mean?

 

[editor]

This idea of let people choose is so naive as to be childlike. Its amazing that anyone thinks that the food will be properly labelled. Before its even hit our shelves it has a bad rep, this will be considered by the US to be unfair trading and as such it will be written into the agreement that labeling cannot be seen as prejudicial to fair trade.

Its amazing that some people are struggling to grasp this basic concept of how trade works. Its almost as if they've had no experience of it at all in the world yet still feel qualified to pontificate on it.

Even if it is labelled it will be distorted to create an entirely false impression, just like all the pretty farmyard and fields graphics that adorn 'free range' eggs.

Advertising strategies adopted by free-range egg producers and distributors play on a genuine concern with animal welfare as their signature marketing trope. However, conditions on their farms are often very far removed from those presented on the egg boxes.

If demand for free-range eggs is driven by concerns over animal welfare, as shown by Michaelidou and Hassan, it would become in the interests of companies producing these foods to exaggerate the welfare conditions of their animals. Through misleading the consumer into thinking that criteria for animal welfare found in the consumer’s expectations are being met by companies, when in fact they are not, companies can increase demand for their goods from this ethically conscious demographic, maximising sales and profits.

Misleading the consumer: The free-range deceit

Lidl is one supermarket that is supplied by the multi-tiered hangar at Combwell Farm, yet still displays free ranging chickens on its box – presenting a standard of animal welfare unrealised by a large portion of its animals

Here's the 'Happy Egg' 'free range' hangar. Disgusting.

 

[Teaboy]

What like people jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions you mean?

Like the idea people will get a choice through clear labeling?

Yes, exactly like that.

Also, its how these trade agreements works. Go and have a look at a few of them, its quite clear you currently have no idea.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Like the idea people will get a choice through clear labeling?

Yes, exactly like that.

Also, its how these trade agreements works. Go and have a look at a few of them, its quite clear you currently have no idea.

I notice you post no facts, merely unsupported suppositions.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The actual process of chlorine washing food is currently allowed for salads and other vegetables. The chlorine wash kills bacteria and helps prolong shelf life, and as many people will eat bagged salad without washing it at home they are ingesting some of this chemical already. The concentration of chlorine used to rinse salads is greater than that in a swimming pool, but less than in common drinking water, where the chemical is used at a low concentration to kill harmful bacteria. It is currently unclear how much chlorine is present in chickens washed with the substance, but investigations suggest it could be less than in some vegetables currently allowed for sale in the EU. The EU has a maximum limit of 0.01mg of chlorate residue per kilo of food, a very low level indeed. Recent tests showed that 10% of fruit and vegetables in the EU contained chlorate residue over this level, perhaps suggesting that consumer fears of the safety of ingesting chlorine washed foods are unfounded and exaggerated by the media.

A Fox among the chickens – what chlorine washing really means | Butchr

What foods are washed in chlorine?
Foods That Contain Chlorine

• Fruits and Vegetables. Chloride is found naturally in some vegetables, including tomatoes, celery, olives, lettuce and seaweed. ...
• Meat, Poultry and Seafood. In the United States, poultry is often chilled in a chlorine water tank to help disinfect it and limit the risk of salmonella. ...
• Dairy Products. ...
• Other Foods.

Foods That Contain Chlorine | Livestrong.com


OVERVIEW

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are used throughout the world by the catering industry to meet HACCP guidelines which require that all raw fruits and vegetables are thoroughly washed with suitable sanitisers before preparation.

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are suitable for disinfection of salads, vegetables and non-peelable fruit, as well as food preparation surfaces and equipment. Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are recognised and proven as an effective, highly convenient and safe food disinfectant, based on the dry chlorine donor, Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate (NaDCC).

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets can also be used for a variety of food service disinfection applications including floors, surfaces, tiles and cloths.

In the UK 76% of the fresh produce industry uses Chlorine for washing organic produce demonstrating the widespread acceptance of chlorine-based disinfectants for food disinfection.

Foodsaf | Hydrachem

 

[editor]

The actual process of chlorine washing food is currently allowed for salads and other vegetables. The chlorine wash kills bacteria and helps prolong shelf life, and as many people will eat bagged salad without washing it at home they are ingesting some of this chemical already. The concentration of chlorine used to rinse salads is greater than that in a swimming pool, but less than in common drinking water, where the chemical is used at a low concentration to kill harmful bacteria. It is currently unclear how much chlorine is present in chickens washed with the substance, but investigations suggest it could be less than in some vegetables currently allowed for sale in the EU. The EU has a maximum limit of 0.01mg of chlorate residue per kilo of food, a very low level indeed. Recent tests showed that 10% of fruit and vegetables in the EU contained chlorate residue over this level, perhaps suggesting that consumer fears of the safety of ingesting chlorine washed foods are unfounded and exaggerated by the media.

A Fox among the chickens – what chlorine washing really means | Butchr

What foods are washed in chlorine?
Foods That Contain Chlorine

• Fruits and Vegetables. Chloride is found naturally in some vegetables, including tomatoes, celery, olives, lettuce and seaweed. ...
• Meat, Poultry and Seafood. In the United States, poultry is often chilled in a chlorine water tank to help disinfect it and limit the risk of salmonella. ...
• Dairy Products. ...
• Other Foods.

Foods That Contain Chlorine | Livestrong.com


OVERVIEW

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are used throughout the world by the catering industry to meet HACCP guidelines which require that all raw fruits and vegetables are thoroughly washed with suitable sanitisers before preparation.

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are suitable for disinfection of salads, vegetables and non-peelable fruit, as well as food preparation surfaces and equipment. Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are recognised and proven as an effective, highly convenient and safe food disinfectant, based on the dry chlorine donor, Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate (NaDCC).

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets can also be used for a variety of food service disinfection applications including floors, surfaces, tiles and cloths.

In the UK 76% of the fresh produce industry uses Chlorine for washing organic produce demonstrating the widespread acceptance of chlorine-based disinfectants for food disinfection.

Foodsaf | Hydrachem

And, again, you've just quoted the same unverified commercial source. Want to try again with some credible independent research? Thanks.

 

[editor]

I notice you post no facts, merely unsupported suppositions.

The article I quoted above shows quite conclusively that labelling can be extremely and intentionally misleading to consumers.

 

[cupid_stunt]

US rates of food poisoning in general are way above ours. Hard to say what is down to what.

According to the US government's CDC, they estimate "Salmonella causes about 1.2 million illnesses, 23,000 hospitalizations, and 450 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for about 1 million of these illnesses."

Salmonella Homepage | CDC

When they banned chlorine washing in 1997 or thereabouts, was there a drop in poisoning cases, and what was the general hygiene regime like when they were still chlorine washing in the EU?

I had a fair old Google around buy couldn’t find anything on this. Without this information it’s hard to conclude anything.

Not sure of your point here, as has been stated time & time again, the problem isn't 'chlorine washing', it's in the general hygiene standards in the production chain, which has always been lower in the US compared to the UK, the UK tends to be better than the EU average. The gap in standards has been growing, as the US has moved to ever bigger production facilities, the relaxing of the rules governing them and the lack of inspections.

 

[8ball]

Like the idea people will get a choice through clear labeling?

Yes, exactly like that.

Also, its how these trade agreements works. Go and have a look at a few of them, its quite clear you currently have no idea.

Just for the record (since I was first to mention the labelling) - my original point was that the promise of clear labelling would be used as the sweetener to get the stuff through the door.

It was then taken to mean alternately "it's fine because labelling will be clear" and also "indefinite and transparent clean labelling is certain and acceptable to all negotiating parties".

 

[Sasaferrato]

The article I quoted above shows quite conclusively that labelling can be extremely and intentionally misleading to consumers.

Tell me, will it have country of origin? That is all you need to know.

 

[8ball]

And, again, you've just quoted the same unverified commercial source. Want to try again with some credible independent research? Thanks.

Also well proof-read.

See: "The concentration of chlorine used to rinse salads is greater than that in a swimming pool, but less than in common drinking water, where the chemical is used at a low concentration to kill harmful bacteria."

Unless Sass is paraphrasing, that's pretty shockingly bad.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Also well proof-read.

See: "The concentration of chlorine used to rinse salads is greater than that in a swimming pool, but less than in common drinking water, where the chemical is used at a low concentration to kill harmful bacteria."

Unless Sass is paraphrasing, that's pretty shockingly bad.

As printed.

The point I was making was that chlorine is extensively used in food production in the EU.

This seems to be more an anti-US, and by extension Trump, argument, than the safety of chlorine in the food chain.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Tell me, will it have country of origin? That is all you need to know.

It'll probably end-up with a label saying 'packaged in the UK', without giving the country of origin, this is a fairly common con.

 

[Sasaferrato]

And, again, you've just quoted the same unverified commercial source. Want to try again with some credible independent research? Thanks.

And again, you have used selective quoting.

May I draw your attention to the third item link?

 

[8ball]

As printed.

Yeah, thought it probably was. Roughly speaking, a swimming pool will have about 5 times as much chlorine in the water as a home drinking water supply (conservative estimate for UK municipal pool and UK public water supply).

 

[Sasaferrato]

It'll probably end-up with a label saying 'packaged in the UK', without giving the country of origin, this is a fairly common con.

And of course, British consumers would never dream of contacting the manufacturer to enquire where it came from?

 

[8ball]

And of course, British consumers would never dream of contacting the manufacturer to enquire where it came from?

Have you ever tried getting any sense out of the people they put at the end of those phone lines?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yeah, thought it probably was. Roughly speaking, a swimming pool will have about 5 times as much chlorine in the water as a home drinking water supply (conservative estimate for UK municipal pool and UK public water supply).

Indeed. Swimming pool water is undrinkable. (Except in Turkey, where the hotel didn't use chlorine in the pool.)

 

[editor]

And again, you have used selective quoting.

May I draw your attention to the third item link?

The commercial company called Hydrachem throwing around unverified figures with vague descriptions? Yes. What about them?

 

[cupid_stunt]

And of course, British consumers would never dream of contacting the manufacturer to enquire where it came from?

Are you seriously suggesting they would?

And, if they did, the reply would no doubt read along the lines of 'XYZ packaging UK Ltd sources their chicken from various suppliers across they world, all within the what the law allows, we are unable to conform the source of chicken contained within a specific package'.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Are you seriously suggesting they would?

And, if they did, the reply would no doubt read along the lines of 'XYZ packaging UK Ltd sources their chicken from various suppliers across they world, all within the what the law allows, we are unable to conform the source of chicken contained within a specific package'.

To which the reply would be 'Keep it'.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The commercial company called Hydrachem throwing around unverified figures with vague descriptions? Yes. What about them?

Prove them wrong. They have made an assertion, you disagree, the ball is in your court.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

To which the reply would be 'Keep it'.

Are you the spokesman for all British consumers?

 

[8ball]

Are you the spokesman for all British consumers?

I'd sooner Sass than Boris Johnson tbf.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yeah, thought it probably was. Roughly speaking, a swimming pool will have about 5 times as much chlorine in the water as a home drinking water supply (conservative estimate for UK municipal pool and UK public water supply).

But, the quote was, 'The concentration of chlorine used to rinse salads is greater than that in a swimming pool, but less than in common drinking water, where the chemical is used at a low concentration to kill harmful bacteria."

If it's greater than that in a pool, but less than in tap water, it doesn't add-up to pools having 5 times as much chlorine as tap water.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Are you the spokesman for all British consumers?

Apologies. Should have read 'My reply'.

 

[editor]

Prove them wrong. They have made an assertion, you disagree, the ball is in your court.

Right. So your base position is believe absolutely anything you read - even when the claims are coming from a self-interested commercial company and totally unsupported by any independent source?

I'll have to pop out for some more s soon at this rate.