The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

[NoXion]

The vaccination itself has it's own risks. You have a view, I have a view and there's the science.

But science is a snapshot in time. The science changes. So everyone is free to make their choices.

The difference between you and I, is that I leave people to make their own choices, rather than telling them what to do.

Even if I shared all of your views on Covid19 and the vaccinations, I wouldn't be telling people what to do.

The science as it currently stands, as it has stood since the beginning, is very clear on the risks of vaccination vs infection. It's less risky to get vaxed. Unless and until that changes, you're wrong. I'm encouraging you to withdraw your false and misleading statement.

 

[krink]

"SOME PEOPLE NAG OTHERS TO GET VACCINATED"

 

[existentialist]

"Middle class cunts" is a much more apt term.

Haven't got that one on my card.

 

[cupid_stunt]

OK. There are people out there that believe the unvaccinated:

Should not have access to healthcare.
Should not be treated for covid-19.
Should not be allowed into public venues.

I've not seen anyone on urban claiming any of that, nor have I met anyone IRL with such views, where are these people?

I suspect they only live in your head.

 

[existentialist]

I've not seen anyone on urban claiming any of that, nor have I met anyone IRL with such views, where are these people?

I suspect they only live in your head.

It's probably about all that does live in that barren wilderness.

 

[krtek a houby]

Crypto changes a lot faster as is way more dynamnic than what goes on with health, but I'm sure governments and corporations will change that as they try to create one health scare after the next in their attempts to control us.

Who's controlling you, caller?

 

[StakerOne]

The science as it currently stands, as it has stood since the beginning, is very clear on the risks of vaccination vs infection. It's less risky to get vaxed. Unless and until that changes, you're wrong. I'm encouraging you to withdraw your false and misleading statement.

I haven't speculated on the actual risks of getting vaccinated, I've simply said there are risks, so no you're wrong and you're constantly trying to drag me into someothing that is none of my business - other people's health.

 

[kabbes]

That doesn't change the fact, that if someone at this stage, managed to fight of Covid without all of that, they are now in a better position than those who got vaccinated.

I'm sorry you can't handle reality, including the reality that I'm not against vaccinations, that I got vaccinated myself, that I'm not telling people what to do with regards to their own health.

I'm sorry that I'm not an evil anti-vaxxer that you want to have a pop at.

My wife, who is a published biomedical scientist, says that this is bollocks because all viral infections cause problems in <ways that I glazed over listening to because they are not straightfoward> even after the immune system has "kind of fought them off but they never really properly get fought off."

I think I'll trust her view on this over yours even though she is suspect by dint of actually having degrees in the subject.

 

[StakerOne]

My wife, who is a published biomedical scientist, says that this is bollocks because all viral infections cause problems in <ways that I glazed over listening to because they are not straightfoward> even after the immune system has "kind of fought them off but they never really properly get fought off."

I think I'll trust her view on this over yours even though she is suspect by dint of actually having degrees in the subject.

I'm not trying to change your views on vaccination or the virus. I've not once told you what to do. I've not even told you what to think.

I've already told you that I don't care what choices my relatives make, what makes you think I would care about yours? That was a rhetorical question btw.

 

[StakerOne]

Haven't got that one on my card.

There's a reason for that.

 

[kabbes]

I'm not. I wish they simply wouldn't do it.

Then tell them, not us.

You're all over the place. In one breath, you're complaining about people not being able to say what they think. In the next, you're complaining about people telling you what they think. Pick a side.

 

[MickiQ]

Damn plebs, why can't they just do as we tell them, because we know better?

Christopher J.L. Murray

www.healthdata.org

Perfectly willing to admit that maybe this guy knows a tad more about medicine than I do.

 

[NoXion]

I haven't speculated on the actual risks of getting vaccinated, I've simply said there are risks, so no you're wrong and you're constantly trying to drag me into someothing that is none of my business - other people's health.

But you're still saying there's a risk, and you've outright stated that people who get infected without the vax are better off than the people who get the vax. That's an empirically verifiable medical claim that doesn't accord with the available evidence, and one which you have yet to withdraw. If someone were to take your statement as gospel, it's likely that they could make a decision which ends up hurting them. Like it or not, by making such statements you are sticking your oar into other peoples' business.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You have to admit, universities are hostile environments for people with right wing views,

No, they're just full of people who want pesky things like evidence and actual research.

 

[kabbes]

I'm not trying to change your views on vaccination or the virus. I've not once told you what to do. I've not even told you what to think.

I've already told you that I don't care what choices my relatives make, what makes you think I would care about yours? That was a rhetorical question btw.

You've made a statement that is simply wrong, which is that somebody who has immunity through catching the virus is in the same (or better) position than somebody who has immunity through being vaccinated.

This is not what current, modern-day virologists think. They say that the whole metaphor of "catching" a virus and then "fighting it off" is completely wrong. You don't fight off a virus. The virus alters you at a genetic level and you remain permanently altered. You can get rid of every single individual virus but what it has done to you does not get fixed. That's why there is a whole spectrum of post-viral conditions, including the long list of long COVID. We're only now just beginning to scratch the surface of this.

So if you caught SARS-COV-2 and managed to generate the antibodies needed to eliminate that particular pathogen from your system, you would still be having to live with an unknown long-term consequence from it having been in your system. You would still have the antibodies ready to eliminate future infection, but that doesn't help you deal with the existing damage.

By contrast, the vaccine is not a pathogen and does not cause this genetic damage. If you have immunity from a vaccine, that's the end of it.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Crypto changes a lot faster as is way more dynamnic than what goes on with health, but I'm sure governments and corporations will change that as they try to create one health scare after the next in their attempts to control us.

Christ, it's like a pound-shop version of Dr Jzzz.

 

[StakerOne]

You're all over the place. In one breath, you're complaining about people not being able to say what they think. In the next, you're complaining about people telling you what they think. Pick a side.

Expressing a point of view about the vaccinations and covid is one thing, nagging people into taking or not taking the vaccinations is another.

 

[kabbes]

Expressing a point of view about the vaccinations and covid is one thing, nagging people into taking or not taking the vaccinations is another.

No it isn't. It really isn't.

Fuck me, they invented the word "snowflake" for you, didn't they? Can dish it out but really can't take it.

 

[bimble]

Expressing a point of view about the vaccinations and covid is one thing, nagging people into taking or not taking the vaccinations is another.

that was weird , wasnt me you're replying to.
do people nag you to tidy your room as well?

 

[StakerOne]

You've made a statement that is simply wrong, which is that somebody who has immunity through catching the virus is in the same (or better) position than somebody who has immunity through being vaccinated.

This is not what current, modern-day virologists think. They say that the whole metaphor of "catching" a virus and then "fighting it off" is completely wrong. You don't fight off a virus. The virus alters you at a genetic level and you remain permanently altered. You can get rid of every single individual virus but what it has done to you does not get fixed. That's why there is a whole spectrum of post-viral conditions, including the long list of long COVID. We're only now just beginning to scratch the surface of this.

So if you caught SARS-COV-2 and managed to generate the antibodies needed to eliminate that particular pathogen from your system, you would still be having to live with an unknown long-term consequence from it having been in your system. You would still have the antibodies ready to eliminate future infection, but that doesn't help you deal with the existing damage.

By contrast, the vaccine is not a pathogen and does not cause this genetic damage. If you have immunity from a vaccine, that's the end of it.

Are you saying that someone who catches the virus and is vaccinated, doesn't suffer any DNA damage from the virus?

 

[StakerOne]

No it isn't. It really isn't.

Fuck me, they invented the word "snowflake" for you, didn't they? Can dish it out but really can't take it.

What are you talking about? My stance is reasonable.

• I don't tell people to take or not take the vaccination.
• I would rather people didn't nag me to take or not take the vaccination.

What a horrible tyrant I am!

 

[kabbes]

Are you saying that someone who catches the virus and is vaccinated, doesn't suffer any DNA damage from the virus?

I'm saying that any damage they suffer is really significantly reduced compared with if they weren't vaccinated.

 

[kabbes]

What are you talking about? My stance is reasonable.

• I don't tell people to take or not take the vaccination.
• I would rather people didn't nag me to take or not take the vaccination.

What a horrible tyrant I am!

Your stance is that you want everybody to be able to say anything they like to anybody they like just so long as it isn't anything you don't like to you.

 

[StakerOne]

that was weird , wasnt me you're replying to.
do people nag you to tidy your room as well?

Jordan Peterson doesn't nag.

 

[NoXion]

What are you talking about? My stance is reasonable.

• I don't tell people to take or not take the vaccination.
• I would rather people didn't nag me to take or not take the vaccination.

What a horrible tyrant I am!

You forgot "Making a provably false statement about the risks of infection vs vaccination".

 

[StakerOne]

I'm saying that any damage they suffer is really significantly reduced compared with if they weren't vaccinated.

But that still has to be weighed up with any risks the vaccine has and that would depend on who you are.

Which is why I never tell people what to do one way or the other.

Defend your own choices all you want. And you have the right to tell people what to do, but in my opinion, if we all did that, overall in my view in would cause more problems than it solves, especially when it comes to our freedoms.

 

[StakerOne]

You forgot "Making a provably false statement about the risks of infection vs vaccination".

Everytime you've brought that up, you've stepped into a time machine, citing a different time reference which is before infection or vaccination. Whether or not someone should have the vaccination and the actual risks at the point of that choice, isn't something I've speculated on.

 

[kabbes]

But that still has to be weighed up with any risks the vaccine has and that would depend on who you are.

It is still simply not the case that somebody who has immunity through catching the disease is in a better position than somebody who has immunity through the vaccine. Future infections that are eliminated by natural antibodies will still do the same small damage as those eliminated by vaccine-stimulated ones. The difference is that the initial disease did much, much more damage than the vaccine.

Sure, there is the 1-in-1000000 case of an individual having a reaction to the vaccine itself. But since we're now looking years down the line, we aren't talking about those people. You, personally, are definitively better off from being vaccinated than if you had got COVID, even if you were unaware of the damage the COVID had done.

By the way, what I am demonstrating here is the benefits of NOT doing your own research, but instead having access to a proper actual scientist that does proper actual research. Any mistakes are my own, of course, because real virology and immunology turns out to be really, really complicated, even when it is explained 500 times very slowly.

 

[NoXion]

Everytime you've brought that up, you've stepped into a time machine, citing a different time reference which is before infection or vaccination. Whether or not someone should have the vaccination and the actual risks at the point of that choice, isn't something I've speculated on.

I've never specified a "time reference", whatever the fuck that gibberish means. That's all been you, and I've explained why that's irrelevant. A person who has a vaccination is at less risk of complications than if they were to be infected. That applies regardless of whether they've been infected before or not, or at what point in the timeline of the pandemic we're talking about. Vaccination is less risky than infection across the board.

 

[StakerOne]

It is still simply not the case that somebody who has immunity through catching the disease is in a better position than somebody who has immunity through the vaccine. Future infections that are eliminated by natural antibodies will still do the same small damage as those eliminated by vaccine-stimulated ones. The difference is that the initial disease did much, much more damage than the vaccine.

Sure, there is the 1-in-1000000 case of an individual having a reaction to the vaccine itself. But since we're now looking years down the line, we aren't talking about those people. You, personally, are definitively better off from being vaccinated than if you had got COVID, even if you were unaware of the damage the COVID had done.

So you're going to take Covid vaccinations for the rest of your life? (I'm asking you what you're doing, I'm not telling you what to do).

I'm only going to speak for myself. I'm not taking any more Covid vaccinations, just as I'm not taking vaccinations for the flu.

I don't care who else does or doesn't. Please don't nag me to, please don't start banging on about fucking digital IDs, Covid passports, social credits etc etc etc.