The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

[NoXion]

Past Covid infection as protective as vaccination against severe illness and death, study finds

Except that it's already been pointed out to you that covid infection comes with a greater risk of complications. Long covid, pneumonia, myocarditis. So even if the level of immunity provided is the same, vaccination is still the safer way to get that immunity,

 

[StakerOne]

Peer pressure to engage in pro-social behaviour is a good thing.



I've never heard of pro-vaxxers engaging in conspiracy theorising. You don't need a conspiracy to explain people being obstinate fools.

The problem is that you're so arrogant and so up your own fucking arse that you seriously believe that your politics is good social behaviour and that anyone who disagrees with you, is bad social behaviour.

That's why we are in this mess.

But hey, don't worry, oh no, don't worry you're pretty little head StakerOne, arrogant fucking politicians would never dream of a social credits system to incentivise "good social behaviour".

 

[NoXion]

Hell, the guy who wrote the paper said this:

“This is really good news, in the sense that protection against severe disease and death after infection is really quite sustained at 10 months,” said the senior study author, Dr. Christopher Murray, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

The findings may be a small silver lining to the explosive omicron outbreak of last winter. With so many people infected, many most likely still benefit from that protection against severe disease, Murray said.

Still, experts stress that vaccination is the preferable route to immunity, given the risks of Covid, particularly in unvaccinated people.

“The problem of saying ‘I’m gonna get infected to get immunity’ is you might be one of those people that end up in the hospital or die,” Murray said. “Why would you take the risk when you can get immunity through vaccination quite safely?”

 

[NoXion]

The problem is that you're so arrogant and so up your own fucking arse that you seriously believe that your politics is good social behaviour and that anyone who disagrees with you, is bad social behaviour.

That's why we are in this mess.

But hey, don't worry, oh no, don't worry you're pretty little head StakerOne, arrogant fucking politicians would never dream of a social credits system to incentivise "good social behaviour".

What's political about encouraging people to get vaccinated? The science of vaccination still works regardless of your politics.

 

[MickiQ]

Hell, the guy who wrote the paper said this:

Damn lefty with his fancy degrees, what does he know eh?

 

[StakerOne]

Except that it's already been pointed out to you that covid infection comes with a greater risk of complications. Long covid, pneumonia, myocarditis. So even if the level of immunity provided is the same, vaccination is still the safer way to get that immunity,

That doesn't change the fact, that if someone at this stage, managed to fight of Covid without all of that, they are now in a better position than those who got vaccinated.

I'm sorry you can't handle reality, including the reality that I'm not against vaccinations, that I got vaccinated myself, that I'm not telling people what to do with regards to their own health.

I'm sorry that I'm not an evil anti-vaxxer that you want to have a pop at.

 

[StakerOne]

What's political about encouraging people to get vaccinated? The science of vaccination still works regardless of your politics.

What's political about discouraging people from getting vaccinated?

 

[Storm Fox]

Go back to my first comment on this thread. My main beef is the social pressures.

People should not be nagging each other about whether to take the vaccine or not.

Indeed. Which is not authoritarianism. Ironically enough, it’s the exact opposite, an expression of free speech and liberty on the part of his family.

What kabbes said.

So your issue is your freedom isn't being promoted above your family's, and their freedom should be subservient to yours. Is that right?

 

[StakerOne]

Hell, the guy who wrote the paper said this:

Good job I'm not telling people to avoid taking the vaccine then! But hey, that's never stopped you!

 

[NoXion]

That doesn't change the fact, that if someone at this stage, managed to fight of Covid without all of that, they are now in a better position than those who got vaccinated.

I'm sorry you can't handle reality, including the reality that I'm not against vaccinations, that I got vaccinated myself, that I'm not telling people what to do with regards to their own health.

I'm sorry that I'm not an evil anti-vaxxer that you want to have a pop at.

Exactly how and why are people who fight off covid without a vaccination better off? If you're vaccinated then you're less likely to require hospitalisation if you get infected. That's the difference between an immune system with some experience via vaccination, vs one that is completely unprepared. Also, the virus can cause damage to vascular and other systems, which is why people endure symptoms beyond the initial infection (long covid). Exactly what is it in your mind which makes taking such risks worthwhile?

What's political about discouraging people from getting vaccinated?

It becomes political when you discourage vaccination on the basis of batshit conspiracy theories rather than the science.

Good job I'm not telling people to avoid taking the vaccine then! But hey, that's never stopped you!

So then are you going to withdraw your claim that people are better off without vaccination? Since it's A) false and B) irrelevant to your arguments?

 

[StakerOne]

What kabbes said.

So your issue is your freedom isn't being promoted above your family's, and their freedom should be subservient to yours. Is that right?

No. I just always remind people that it's not a good idea to nag others when it comes to vaccination.

 

[StakerOne]

Exactly how and why are people who fight off covid without a vaccination better off? If you're vaccinated then you're less likely to require hospitalisation if you get infected. That's the difference between an immune system with some experience via vaccination, vs one that is completely unprepared. Also, the virus can cause damage to vascular and other systems, which is why people endure symptoms beyond the initial infection (long covid). Exactly what is it in your mind which makes taking such risks worthwhile?


It becomes political when you discourage vaccination on the basis of batshit conspiracy theories rather than the science.



So then are you going to withdraw your claim that people are better off without vaccination? Since it's A) false and B) irrelevant to your arguments?

People can be better off without vaccination, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get themselves vaccinated.

People can be better off without insurance, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get themselves insured.

 

[NoXion]

People can be better off without vaccination, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get themselves vaccinated.

People can be better off without insurance, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get themselves insured.

But how are they better off risking covid infection complications rather than taking a vaccination? This is the question you've consistently failed to answer.

 

[StakerOne]

Damn lefty with his fancy degrees, what does he know eh?

Damn plebs, why can't they just do as we tell them, because we know better?

 

[StakerOne]

But how are they better off risk covid infection complications rather than taking a vaccination? This is the question you've consistently failed to answer.

I don't need to answer it, because I'm not pro or anti vaccination. I'm not sat here telling people what to do. You are.

 

[NoXion]

I don't need to answer it, because I'm not pro or anti vaccination. I'm not sat here telling people what to do. You are.

Yes, you do. When you make claims that are false, you have the responsibility for that. Why are you making claims that you are unwilling to defend?

 

[StakerOne]

But how are they better off risking covid infection complications rather than taking a vaccination? This is the question you've consistently failed to answer.

Besides, you are talking about a snapshot of time, back in time. I'm talking about here and now.

 

[NoXion]

Besides, you are talking about a snapshot of time, back in time. I'm talking about here and now.

No, I'm not talking about a snapshot in time. It's always been the case that it's a better idea to gain immunity via vaccination rather than infection. Vaccination has always carried a lower risk of complications.

 

[StakerOne]

Yes, you do. When you make claims that are false, you have the responsibility for that. Why are you making claims that you are unwilling to defend?

What claim have I made that is false? Here, right now, if we have soemone stood in front of us who hasn't had the vaccination and fought off Covid, they are in a better position than someone who hasn't been vaccinated. That's a fact, neither of us can escape from. That doesn't mean to say we shouldn't have a vaccination. That's not an argument for that. But I'm betting you'll treat it that way, because you're fucking nuts.

 

[Storm Fox]

No. I just always remind people that it's not a good idea to nag others when it comes to vaccination.

But that is their free choice and your free choice to post unsourced* contentious posts for three days when you claim not to give a fuck.

*The two sources you state related to the immunity given by covid from future infections and not lessening the effects of the first case of catching it.

The Russian Roulette meme back a few pages is very apt. If you didn't die or get long covid from it the first time, you'd be OK.

 

[NoXion]

What claim have I made that is false? Here, right now, if we have soemone stood in front of us who hasn't had the vaccination and fought off Covid, they are in a better position than someone who hasn't been vaccinated. That's a fact, neither of us can escape from.

But how are they in a better position? They literally got infected with a virus that doesn't care about their health, unlike the designers of a vaccine. Because as of right now, you're just saying that they're better off because you just say so. That's not how science works. You need to show evidence for your claims.

 

[StakerOne]

But that is their free choice and your free choice to post unsourced* contentious posts for three days when you claim not to give a fuck.

*The two sources you state related to the immunity given by covid from future infections and not lessening the effects of the first case of catching it.

The Russian Roulette meme back a few pages is very apt. If you didn't die or get long covid from it the first time, you'd be OK.

Oh fuck off with the emotional Russian Roulette bollocks! Whatever next? Banning people from crossing the road without a permit?

 

[StakerOne]

But how are they in a better position? They literally got infected with a virus that doesn't care about their health, unlike the designers of a vaccine. Because as of right now, you're just saying that they're better off because you just say so. That's not how science works. You need to show evidence for your claims.

The designers of the vaccine are just greedy fucks out to make cash, just like those greedy fucks trying to make a fairer financial system.

I posted evidence to back up my claims, but you keep going back in a time machine and pretending the past is the present.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I posted evidence to back up my claims, but you keep going back in a time machine and pretending the past is the present.

You haven't posted any evidence of the kind.

 

[2hats]

Past Covid infection as protective as vaccination against severe illness and death, study finds

Have you read the paper concerned?

 

[Storm Fox]

Damn plebs, why can't they just do as we tell them, because we know better?

Yes. Not just degrees, advanced training and knowledge in general. That's why I don't do my own plumbing and gas fitting. There are experts.
The same goes for virology.
The world is so complicated that we need experts to advise us, and that's not the same as someone off the internet who just knows the answer.

Also I wouldn't listen to a virologist on how to install your own gas boiler.

 

[NoXion]

The desingers of the vaccine are just greedy fucks out to make cash, just like those greedy fucks trying to make a fairer financial system.

I posted evidence to back up my claims, but you keep going back in a time machine and pretending the past is the present.

We don't have to examine the character of the pharmaceutical companies in order to determine the effectiveness of their products. They've been extensively tested and the evidence is in. If you've got evidence otherwise, then by all means share it.

You posted evidence that covid infection gives you immunity on the same level as vaccination, yes. But that doesn't change the fact that the risk of complications are higher with covid infection than they are with vaccination. You don't get long covid from the vax. You don't get pneumonia. The risk of myocarditis is lower. So what is the actual benefit in which it makes sense to roll the dice with covid infection versus vaccination?

 

[StakerOne]

But how are they in a better position? They literally got infected with a virus that doesn't care about their health, unlike the designers of a vaccine. Because as of right now, you're just saying that they're better off because you just say so. That's not how science works. You need to show evidence for your claims.

They are better off because they got past Covid, they don't have long covid, they have an equal or better immune response to Covid AND they don't have to worry about any unknowns concerning the vaccine, such a possible long term side effects of it.

Again, I'll tell you, I stress, that isn't a reason not to take the vaccination.

But, where I get off, is making proclamations about whether people are better off taking the vaccination or not.

That's the differnce, I make my own choice, for my own personal health.

I believe in others weighing up the facts and making their own choices, rather than using emotional blackmail, patronisation and peer pressure.

Because if emotional blackmail and peer pressure were to become the social norms, then the government would be able to introduce digital IDs, social credits and CBDCs, running our lives, with barely any resistance.

 

[StakerOne]

Yes. Not just degrees, advanced training and knowledge in general. That's why I don't do my own plumbing and gas fitting. There are experts.
The same goes for virology.
The world is so complicated that we need experts to advise us, and that's not the same as someone off the internet who just knows the answer.

Also I wouldn't listen to a virologist on how to install your own gas boiler.

How many more strawmen, sorry strawtheys do you have?

 

[Storm Fox]

Oh fuck off with the emotional Russian Roulette bollocks! Whatever next? Banning people from crossing the road without a permit?

It's a valid comparison. The people who don't die from the initial infection can better resist another infection, but you are forgetting those who do die or get Long Covid, which is prevented by the vaccine at a much greater degree than those who don't. So saying getting covid gives as good immunisation as the vaccine is disingenuous.