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the sir jimmy savile obe thread

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taffboy gwyrdd said:
Elites exist. That's why I don't question the existence of them. I do not consider faith or ethnicity relevant unless they are perhaps elites within a given faith or ethnicity. That's because I'm not a bigot, which is why no one can quote me as saying anything anti-semitic.

I consider finance capital as being separate in function from industrial capital, even more useless and more fraudulent. Ultimately the unaccountable owning entities are likely to be the same, so they are not at all separate in that way. There has been a transition in emphasis, from one to the other, especially since the big bang, and softening on fraud after the Blue Arrow scandal, relaxation of Glass Steagal type legislation, Labour's Prawn Cocktail Offensive and Light Touch Regulation.
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You think finance capital can exist without productive capital and vice versa? Really?
 
Blagsta said:
Yet you're promoting this shit.
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Please provide a quote where I promoted fascism. I've had death threats from fascists along with daily insults, but I've not been accused of promoting it so I am concerned to see the evidence.

Not a quote of me saying something you say fascists say, and that I must be saying it for the same reason - that's flimsy conjecture and supposition.

A quote where I promote fascism. Thank You.

Separately, I will answer FWs erroneous patronising bilge to her in due course.
There are several repeated and wanton misunderstandings in her last post.

I would like to start another thread on the issue of false accusations of anti-semitism so as not to continue having this one over polluted but aint sure of the right folder. Suggestions welcom. False allegations of bigotry should not go unchallenged. To hope that they might is classic bullying.

I have never had such accusations made against me beyond U75, and only strongly by one person here. I do have one comrade in another organisation who has endured it from time to time, again groundlessly as far as I can tell. I have no idea of the psychology or political motives.

A request remains open for anyone to provide a quote from me displaying prejudice or bigotry against the Jewish faith or Jewish people.

For all the scoffing, joking, flaming and "likes" of such stuff, not one person has actually provided such a quote.

"International finance capital" may be used by fascists as a code. It is also used by lots more non fascists to describe capital transactions predicated on certain financial "products" that are not physically tangible. These exist in a context not confined to nation states, small units or even continental blocs. Hence "international". This global tendency was correctly predicted nearly 200 years ago by a famous German/Jewish philosopher. The need for global revolution against it was cited about 100 years ago by a Russian/Jewish political leader and theorist.

One could say "global money powers" or some other kind of synonym, one would be accused of the same thing for the same nonsense reasons.

"elite" is used to describe the people at the very top of a given structure - it is a terms used to refer to class, not ethnicity or faith.

The accusations against me remain ill-founded, unproven, false and offensive.
 
Taffboy. You are obviously as kosher as Stamford Hill and you have been proved 100% right about everything. I imagine your house decorated in Stars of David and "I heart Mossad" posters. I apologise on behalf of everyone who has upset you and I think they are really stupid.

Will you fuck off now?
 
Blagsta said:
You think finance capital can exist without productive capital and vice versa? Really?
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I think he's making what's known as a "false dichotomy".
I can't imagine why he's doing so, though. No sirree bob!

Although to be fair "rapacious international manufacturing elites" doesn't have the same ring to it as "rapacious international financial elites", does it? ;)
 
Blagsta said:
You think finance capital can exist without productive capital and vice versa? Really?
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No I don't, and i don't think I indicated that I did. Not that this hasn't become a familiar place for putting words in people's mouths but it would be a trivial concoction compared to the one about me having a prejudice against Jews.

Clearly the realisation of paper profits will ultimately take place in the physical world.

I do think the emphasis has shifted. Finance capital seems to produce higher short term profit on paper without the tiresome need to employ people, make and sell stuff in the cumbersome 3D.

The fact that realised profits can only be predicated on future real labour, resources etc. (productive) is mere detail when short termism dominates strategy.

All capitalism is enormously problematic technically and amoral at best (giving rise to immorality as nature tends not to tolerate vacuums). There's a famous and inspiring Jewish bloke who specifically turfed capitalists out of a place of worship on the basis of such immorality.

But finance capital is more fraudulent and even more problematic in the long run.

The distinction is a useful one. I don't see it as a bourgeois distinction if one is skeptical about capitalism anyhow.

Over the past 30 years the UK especially has shifted away from production to finance capital (as well as service industries)

The City Of London has become the global centre for this fraud - seeing far less prosecutions than the US for example. Our role as the home of fraud was actively celebrated and encouraged throughout the Thatcher/Major and Blair/Brown tenures.

This is not an exageration. The FSA was specifically instructed to go easy (in practice do nothing) about such activities. That's why LIBOR fraud won't be prosecuted as criminal for example.

Not the FSA is being ditched altogher for something probably even more feeble. The language shifts all the time, ever downplaying record breaking theft while children will go hungry from benefits cuts in some attempt to give these people more money.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
No I don't, and i don't think I indicated that I did. Not that this hasn't become a familiar place for putting words in people's mouths but it would be a trivial concoction compared to the one about me having a prejudice against Jews.

Clearly the realisation of paper profits will ultimately take place in the physical world.

I do think the emphasis has shifted. Finance capital seems to produce higher short term profit on paper without the tiresome need to employ people, make and sell stuff in the cumbersome 3D.

The fact that realised profits can only be predicated on future real labour, resources etc. (productive) is mere detail when short termism dominates strategy.

All capitalism is enormously problematic technically and amoral at best (giving rise to immorality as nature tends not to tolerate vacuums). There's a famous and inspiring Jewish bloke who specifically turfed capitalists out of a place of worship on the basis of such immorality.

But finance capital is more fraudulent and even more problematic in the long run.

The distinction is a useful one. I don't see it as a bourgeois distinction if one is skeptical about capitalism anyhow.

Over the past 30 years the UK especially has shifted away from production to finance capital (as well as service industries)

The City Of London has become the global centre for this fraud - seeing far less prosecutions than the US for example. Our role as the home of fraud was actively celebrated and encouraged throughout the Thatcher/Major and Blair/Brown tenures.

This is not an exageration. The FSA was specifically instructed to go easy (in practice do nothing) about such activities. That's why LIBOR fraud won't be prosecuted as criminal for example.

Not the FSA is being ditched altogher for something probably even more feeble. The language shifts all the time, ever downplaying record breaking theft while children will go hungry from benefits cuts in some attempt to give these people more money.
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Fyi: jesus did not chuck any capitalists out of the temple.
 
frogwoman said:
Jim'll fix the international fractional reserve banking system so the rothschilds get all the money.
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I thought there were plenty of families who gained from this type of thing.

I don't see their faith or ethnicity as relevant. FW does, it backs up a false accusation.

I never once said that JS was linked to all this, I made the comparison between the "nobody knew/everybody knew" motif because I thought it was interesting and it is.

FW construed that I did, it backs up a false narrative.

I also talked of scandals in the Roman Catholic Church and Parliament with similar parallels.

FW didn't pick up on those, they didn't back up a false narrative.

FW is a conspiracy theorist, but her conspiracy (that I have a prejudice against Jews and hide behind it by criticising capitalism and discussing various scandals) doesn't stand up in the least.
 
Pickman's model said:
Fyi: jesus did not chuck any capitalists out of the temple.
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The temples only accepted temple currency for purchases for sacrifice, rather than regular money (I suppose Shekles were the unit?)

This was done to enhance profits in a way not massively dis similar to the "truck shops" and "company stores" run by industrial capitalists in former centuries.

This generated profit.

fyi : It was thus an essentially capitalist enterprise.

He described them as a "den of thieves" because he clearly considered such activity thievery. I happen to agree with him.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
The temples only accepted temple currency for purchases for sacrifice, rather than regular money (I suppose Shekles were the unit?)

This was done to enhance profits in a way not massively dis similar to the "truck shops" and "company stores" run by industrial capitalists in former centuries.

This generated profit.

fyi : It was thus an essentially capitalist enterprise.

He described them as a "den of thieves" because he clearly considered such activity thievery. I happen to agree with him.
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Please do this somewhere else...

...and get it right.

Louis MacNeice
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
No I don't, and i don't think I indicated that I did. Not that this hasn't become a familiar place for putting words in people's mouths but it would be a trivial concoction compared to the one about me having a prejudice against Jews.

Clearly the realisation of paper profits will ultimately take place in the physical world.

I do think the emphasis has shifted. Finance capital seems to produce higher short term profit on paper without the tiresome need to employ people, make and sell stuff in the cumbersome 3D.
Click to expand...

You're using the phrase "finance capital" to describe a small part of the ambit of finance capital. What you should be saying is that some speculative finance capital does the above.

The fact that realised profits can only be predicated on future real labour, resources etc. (productive) is mere detail when short termism dominates strategy.

All capitalism is enormously problematic technically and amoral at best (giving rise to immorality as nature tends not to tolerate vacuums). There's a famous and inspiring Jewish bloke who specifically turfed capitalists out of a place of worship on the basis of such immorality.
Click to expand...

Capitalism is problematic because the entire structure is predicated on the ability to continuously expand existing markets and establish new one, while operating within a closed system in terms of resources and customers. Besides that, questions of morality are irrelevant.

But finance capital is more fraudulent and even more problematic in the long run.

The distinction is a useful one. I don't see it as a bourgeois distinction if one is skeptical about capitalism anyhow.
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It's spectacularly non-useful. It's a distinction between parasites, and operates on the assumption that one parasite is inherently worse than another without addressing why that might be the case.

Over the past 30 years the UK especially has shifted away from production to finance capital (as well as service industries)
Click to expand...

Wrong. The UK didn't shift away of it's own accord, itwas shifted away. This wasn't "evolutionary", it was a deliberate ideologically-motivated manipulation of manufacturing capacity and investment in it.

The City Of London has become the global centre for this fraud - seeing far less prosecutions than the US for example. Our role as the home of fraud was actively celebrated and encouraged throughout the Thatcher/Major and Blair/Brown tenures.

This is not an exageration. The FSA was specifically instructed to go easy (in practice do nothing) about such activities. That's why LIBOR fraud won't be prosecuted as criminal for example.

Not the FSA is being ditched altogher for something probably even more feeble. The language shifts all the time, ever downplaying record breaking theft while children will go hungry from benefits cuts in some attempt to give these people more money.
Click to expand...

Welcome to how the world has turned for at least the last 250 years. You think Orwell was reading the tea-leaves when he wrote "1984"? He was using not only his own experience of the Soviets and home-grown leftists, but his experience of government and media propaganda and bureaucracy too.
 
cesare said:
Apparently Icke is talking at Wembley for 9 hours soon. It seems a common trait, to hold forth at length.
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It's the "logical" thing to do (i.e. necessary :) ) if your philosophy sees links between everything. You need plenty of time to explicate all those links. ;)
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
The temples only accepted temple currency for purchases for sacrifice, rather than regular money (I suppose Shekles were the unit?)

This was done to enhance profits in a way not massively dis similar to the "truck shops" and "company stores" run by industrial capitalists in former centuries.

This generated profit.

fyi : It was thus an essentially capitalist enterprise.

He described them as a "den of thieves" because he clearly considered such activity thievery. I happen to agree with him.
Click to expand...
No capitalism existed at that point, ergo no capitalists.
 
:D


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