the sir jimmy savile obe thread

[ViolentPanda]

{Psst! This, here, is not counselling.}

Although it can be therapeutic.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is one of the weirdest trolls I've seen on here. Odd.

 

[ViolentPanda]

To move this discussion back on track, one thing that concerns me is the disclosure system (CRB or whatever it's called these days) - so many people are abusing but haven't been prosecuted, so their disclosure check/review comes back clean. Now I know no system will be perfect and catch everybody but can this system be improved? What else can be put in place?

CRB/DBS is window-dressing. It shows the govt and the employers are "doing something about the problem", but as you imply, doesn't actually deal with any offender who happens to be sly enough or lucky enough to have never been charged.
Frankly, there's nothing much that can be done to improve the system, or to institute a different, more effective system, without trampling several of those civil liberties we're all so fond of.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Lots of us want to be seen as clever and knowledgeable. The trick, I find, is to be clever enough to stick to pontificating on topics on which we ARE knowledgeable.

Pfft. Where's the fun in that!

 

[ViolentPanda]

You have an extraordinary reverence for psychologists!

Idols with feet of clay.

 

[Red Cat]

Why don't you read my last post again ? And reinterpret it again.
I was very clear what was being offered over here in a special ed setting.

I was also very clear about the distinction between preventative work and post abuse work.

I think we would all like to see a day where counselling for victims is not the answer to abuse. Think about it. Existentialist states that getting victims to talk is the way forward in the fight against abuse. This is a typical counsellors view because they work at listening to victims....There is another approach you know that involves prevention. And educating young people about abuse is very important in the fight against abuse.

Nobody is clear what you're saying because you're not clear about what you're saying. I'm not sure why the application of a programme in a special needs setting means that it doesn't have a name.

And I'm not talking about preventative vs therapeutic work, I'm saying that education as prevention has its limits.

 

[Rural]

Nobody is clear what you're saying because you're not clear about what you're saying. I'm not sure why the application of a programme in a special needs setting means that it doesn't have a name.

And I'm not talking about preventative vs therapeutic work, I'm saying that education as prevention has its limits.

I doubt theres anyone who'd argue prevention isn't preferable to cure. Except those making money from the cure.

 

[Red Cat]

I doubt theres anyone who'd argue prevention isn't preferable to cure. Except those making money from the cure.

And who are they?

 

[cesare]

Why has Red Cat's username come up as othersat in the quote in #3337?

 

[Rural]

QUOTE="cesare, post: 13259012, member: 30389"]Why has Red Cat's username come up as othersat in the quote in #3337?[/QUOTE]
Thats my post & I have no idea! Whenever I try to reply or quote on here strange things happen. But I'm quite new so maybe I'm doing something wrong! Sorry bout that

 

[Rural]

Why has Red Cat's username come up as othersat in the quote in #3337?

U see? I click reply & it comes out in a weird quote & sometimes changes words

 

[cesare]

QUOTE="cesare, post: 13259012, member: 30389"]Why has Red Cat's username come up as othersat in the quote in #3337?

Thats my post & I have no idea! Whenever I try to reply or quote on here strange things happen. But I'm quite new so maybe I'm doing something wrong! Sorry bout that

No need to apologise! I was just curious. Cheers for replying.

 

[Rural]

[QUOTE="cesare, post: 13259060, member: 30No need to apologise! I was just curious. Cheers for replying.[/QUOTE]
I hit reply & its come up as quote again. Anyway I don't want to bore everyone with this but pls excuse if my posts dontblook quite *right*

 

[two sheds]

Your last post missed an end square bracket after the initial Quote - are you unintentionally deleting them? I regularly do.

Pressing More Options and Preview should show what the post will really look like.

 

[eatmorecheese]

This is not uncommon amongst educationalists. One of the things that I found most surprising when I started doing this work was the almost religious belief in behaviouralism that exists in the education establishment - pretty much everything is predicated on reward/punishment, for example.

And it's not that the people working in this field are narrow-minded: many (probably most) of them, when introduced to, for example, some of the Adlerian ideas about child development and core developmental needs are quite astonished by the "fit" between the theory and their own experiences of life, let alone that of the children they work with.

It's the same with child protection - the whole thing is reductively condensed down to soundbite instructions to kids on what to do, regardless of their practicality. Very little is talked about feelings, which is usually the first clue for most of us that something is wrong: instead, these prescriptive approaches tend to say "if this happens, then do that". Which actually makes them more at risk of abuse, because all any abuser has to do to foil the system is make sure that "this" doesn't happen, or at least not in the same way the child has been told to recognise it.

Spot on, I'm finding this is a significant barrier to embedding any form of family-based systemic support practice in some schools, even from EWO's and SENCo's.

I advise and support education practitioners around early intervention work with families to prevent eventual escalation to statutory social care. There is a strong behaviouralist strain that believes prescriptive (and often coercive) approaches that pit professionals against parents are the way to progress things. It rarely works. My biggest headache is to challenge assumptions without burning my bridges.

Anyway, apols for derail...

 

[Rural]

UOTE="two sheds, post: 13259085, member: 430"]Your last post missed an end square bracket after the initial Quote - are you unintentionally deleting them? I regularly do.

Pressing More Options and Preview should show what the post will really look like.[/QUOTE]
Im not intentionally quoting anything, they just coming up now the first Q has gone from QUOTE. I don't think its me doing it but I will b extra careful, thank u

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

And I'm not talking about preventative vs therapeutic work, I'm saying that education as prevention has its limits.

Very true.....but education has been assigned a role in educating children and teenagers regarding prevention ......and counselling in the form that existentialist describes has limits in the prevention of abuse because it takes place after the abused person has been abused.

They are two sides to a coin. Both unfortunately are necessary.

 

[Citizen66]

Well learn how to correct it manually. Rural

 

[Rural]

Well learn how to correct it manually. Rural

Is this to me? I really dont want to bore anyone any more with my tech probs, I can't correct it if I don't know what its meant to look like, also when I have corrected, b4 I click post it just puts it back to what it was anyway. But I'm interrupting the discussion, sorry, I will try to sort this out

 

[Citizen66]

Is this to me? I really dont want to bore anyone any more with my tech probs, I can't correct it if I don't know what its meant to look like, also when I have corrected, b4 I click post it just puts it back to what it was anyway. But I'm interrupting the discussion, sorry, I will try to sort this out

What browser are you using? I really can't think of any reason why this is happening other than software at your end. I remember at one point Safari on my tablet used to mischievously swap people's avatars about which could get well confusing as the brain follows quick visual cues.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

And who are they?

Who do you think they might be?
Teachers get paid their salary no matter what extra initiatives and programmes are implemented so they're not making any money ... department of education programmes over here are free...and all materials are free so they're not making any money. Staff training for teachers, child care personnel and health personnel is free over here....and trainers are usually employed in the health boards or departments of education and the training of personnel is only one aspect of their job.....
Educational psychologists assigned to schools over here do various work apart from child protection and are paid a standarf salary by the HSE
.. so they're not making extra money.
Private psychs and private counsellors may make money from those who can afford to pay for their services. I have no idea how many people can afford an hour of private counselling by either a psych or counsellor but I hear the going rate for private services is around €100 an hour. That's not to say that their services are not optional and there are cases of abuse where the state pays for a victim's counselling.

But who do you think is making money ? Is it very different over there? Are you involved in child protection?

 

[Rural]

What browser are you using? I really can't think of any reason why this is happening other than software at your end. I remember at one point Safari on my tablet used to mischievously swap people's avatars about which could get well confusing as the brain follows quick visual cues.

It prob is my end, im on android, someone has just msgd me bout this hopefully I sort it out soon! Thank you

 

[Citizen66]

No worries.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

How about a psychologist (one of the hats I wear) telling you that
a) You're misrepresenting what the counsellor said to you, and
b) You weren't told your reaction was wrong, you were told that your claim that your personal reaction was the "right" or "natural" reaction, was wrong.

And frankly, your claim that a "fight" reaction was or is right or natural, shits all over the experience of the majority of abusees, where a fight reaction wasn't available to them.

You're referring to the rolf harris thread where I said how I reacted to abuse as a kid. ... and where
I said how I would react as an adult.
My reactions were natural to me....where does that shit on anyone else's reactions?

The questions I asked were about the culture of abuse in the world of television at the time when vanessa feltz described rolf Harris abusing her on live telly ... I was asking how people would react if it were them. I outlined three possible reactions which wasn't an exclusive list by any means. There could be many more potential reactions ......
Existentialist decided I was commenting on every victim of abuse and he generalised from there. I realise people have read more than i intended into that post.

 

[Red Cat]

Who do you think they might be?
Teachers get paid their salary no matter what extra initiatives and programmes are implemented so they're not making any money ... department of education programmes over here are free...and all materials are free so they're not making any money. Staff training for teachers, child care personnel and health personnel is free over here....and trainers are usually employed in the health boards or departments of education and the training of personnel is only one aspect of their job.....
Educational psychologists assigned to schools over here do various work apart from child protection and are paid a standarf salary by the HSE
.. so they're not making extra money.
Private psychs and private counsellors may make money from those who can afford to pay for their services. I have no idea how many people can afford an hour of private counselling by either a psych or counsellor but I hear the going rate for private services is around €100 an hour. That's not to say that their services are not optional and there are cases of abuse where the state pays for a victim's counselling.

But who do you think is making money ? Is it very different over there? Are you involved in child protection?

I'm not sure it's for me to answer the first question given that it wasn't me that stated that there may be some financial interest at stake such that it could lead to a preference for cure over prevention.

I work with children, so, yes, I'm involved in child protection.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

I'm not sure it's for me to answer the first question given that it wasn't me that stated that there may be some financial interest at stake such that it could lead to a preference for cure over prevention.

I work with children, so, yes, I'm involved in child protection.

.....I should have quoted the poster who made the post... I think it's a fair question to ask.

 

[Rural]

.....I should have quoted the poster who made the post... I think it's a fair question to ask.

I think it was me. I was thinking in terms of companies set up for the purposes of offering cheap, speedy solutions, who the authorities would prefer, despite their dubious credentials. I'm thinking of similar things to what has happened in the area of for eg, drug treatment where companies like CRI have taken over from actual professionals & also in the area of employment/job training, where many small companies r "advising" the unemployed. I guess it seems that areas once reserved for ppl who knew what they were doing r being farmed out to the lowest bidder & many ppl r getting rich off the back of this. I'm also thinking of all the *talking heads* eg Esther rantzen, who the media employs to talk rubbish every time abuse hits the news. They also profit from the subject more than if they were interested in prevention.

 

[Rural]

I think it was me. I was thinking in terms of companies set up for the purposes of offering cheap, speedy solutions, who the authorities would prefer, despite their dubious credentials. I'm thinking of similar things to what has happened in the area of for eg, drug treatment where companies like CRI have taken over from actual professionals & also in the area of employment/job training, where many small companies r "advising" the unemployed. I guess it seems that areas once reserved for ppl who knew what they were doing r being farmed out to the lowest bidder & many ppl r getting rich off the back of this. I'm also thinking of all the *talking heads* eg Esther rantzen, who the media employs to talk rubbish every time abuse hits the news. They also profit from the subject more than if they were interested in prevention.

I apologise for rambling nature of last post, it's taken me ages to keep re - typing as still trying to sort out my tech probs. Thanks to those who've made helpful suggestions

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

@ existentialist

Glad you got my pm and the info I sent you on the "Freedom" programme plus contact names and addresses.

...you're welcome to contact my place of work, and the other centres mentioned in the pm, for further info.

 

[ibilly99]

Harris was a shit painter too it turns out...

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Nigel...-complicated/story-21444252-detail/story.html