The ongoing stupidity of Home Secretary Priti Patel

[SpookyFrank]

Since they seem to be prepared to invest quite a lot of political capital in continuing to try to suppress it, the implication would seem to be that, whatever it contains, it must be worse than the reputational loss they're incurring by quite so blatantly trying to do so.

The normal rules don't really apply any more. These people can do what the fuck they like and they know it.

 

[NoXion]

The normal rules don't really apply any more. These people can do what the fuck they like and they know it.

That's a dangerous game they're playing, isn't it though? What happens when the rest of the country decides to follow their shitty example? These people might not working in politics by the time the breakdown that they're encouraging reaches its zenith, but it could still be unpleasant for them unless they've moved out of the country. Although given the current state of the world as a whole, I'm not convinced there will be that many safe havens in foreign places by that time either.

I just don't fucking get these people.

 

[existentialist]

The normal rules don't really apply any more. These people can do what the fuck they like and they know it.

Well, they think they can. Eventually - and I'm willing to admit that I thought the point had been passed a long time ago - they will be called to account, and the whole thing will come crashing down around their (and, sadly, our) ears.

 

[existentialist]

That's a dangerous game they're playing, isn't it though? What happens when the rest of the country decides to follow their shitty example? These people might not working in politics by the time the breakdown that they're encouraging reaches its zenith, but it could still be unpleasant for them unless they've moved out of the country. Although given the current state of the world as a whole, I'm not convinced there will be that many safe havens in foreign places by that time either.

I just don't fucking get these people.

Daniel Kahneman - System 1 and System 2 Thinking Explained - 6 Min Read - Better Cognitions

It all comes down to belief.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's a dangerous game they're playing, isn't it though? What happens when the rest of the country decides to follow their shitty example? These people might not working in politics by the time the breakdown that they're encouraging reaches its zenith, but it could still be unpleasant for them unless they've moved out of the country. Although given the current state of the world as a whole, I'm not convinced there will be that many safe havens in foreign places by that time either.

I just don't fucking get these people.

Cameron's done alright out of his 'fuck everything up then GTFO' gambit tbf.

 

[stavros]

A dramatic interpretation of current events in the Home Office:

 

[two sheds]

From Squawkbox sorry, but they say exclusive:

Exclusive: Priti Patel self-isolating after exposure to C+ civil servant – and putting others at risk

Home Secretary in isolation for 10 days after meeting with senior civil servant – but exposure makes mockery of government’s ‘COVID secure’ claims and Patel’s own Twit…

skwawkbox.org

shows her mixing with people at close range with no mask.

if true

 

[existentialist]

From Squawkbox sorry, but they say exclusive:

Exclusive: Priti Patel self-isolating after exposure to C+ civil servant – and putting others at risk

Home Secretary in isolation for 10 days after meeting with senior civil servant – but exposure makes mockery of government’s ‘COVID secure’ claims and Patel’s own Twit…

skwawkbox.org

shows her mixing with people at close range with no mask.

if true

If she really is as stupid as she appears determined to persuade us she is with her behaviour, then I could well imagine her naively taking all kinds of risk. And if she's as much of a victim of her grandiose delusions as she appears determined to persuade us she is, then she probably thinks that being a racist home secretary is enough to scare a Chinese virus away.

 

[two sheds]

criminal behaviour really, needs someone right at the top of the Home Office to censure her.

 

[existentialist]

criminal behaviour really, needs someone right at the top of the Home Office to censure her.

But it's a funny thing: Home Secretaries, almost more than any other Cabinet post, seem to turn into monomaniacal demagogues almost from the instant they take office.

 

[two sheds]

Indeed, over the last 20 years or more I've been saying that nomatter who we have in government we always get Mussolini as Home Secretary.

 

[existentialist]

Indeed, over the last 20 years or more I've been saying that nomatter who we have in government we always get Mussolini as Home Secretary.

I like that

It was most stark, I think, with Jack Straw, who seemed to turn from a moderately pragmatic, if rather...definite MP into exactly the same kind of write-only autocrat that has preceded and succeeded him in a long and unbroken line.

 

[two sheds]

yep, he came to mind as I was typing mine

 

[andysays]

Indeed, over the last 20 years or more I've been saying that nomatter who we have in government we always get Mussolini as Home Secretary.

And I bet someone always makes the same joke about them being better suited to Transport...

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought the traditional thing in these cases was to slip it out on something 9/11

 

[Pickman's model]

Indeed, over the last 20 years or more I've been saying that nomatter who we have in government we always get Mussolini as Home Secretary.

Mussolini was far better read than anyone in the current cabinet. Or for that matter any cabinet minister of the past 20 years.

 

[Spandex]

But it's a funny thing: Home Secretaries, almost more than any other Cabinet post, seem to turn into monomaniacal demagogues almost from the instant they take office.

I think one of the reasons for this is the culture of the Home Office. Within the Civil Service the HO is notorious for being staffed by right wing headbangers. If a minister gets appointed who doesn't really care about the job and just does whatever's suggested to them or if they aren't confident and rely on their Civil Servant's advice then they'll be steered towards the HO's swivel eyed attitude. If the minister has authoritarian leanings to start with the Civil Servants will feed it. It would take a strong willed minister with clear ideas and principles to counter the departmental worldview, and they're so unusual it's unlikely they'd be dumped into the losers role of Home Secretary in the first place.

 

[two sheds]

Hence we have overcrowded prisons which have people (mainly women) in for not paying tv fines, also driving licence fines and low-level drug use. (I presume that's still true, always used to be.)

 

[William of Walworth]

I think one of the reasons for this is the culture of the Home Office. Within the Civil Service the HO is notorious for being staffed by right wing headbangers. If they aren't confident and rely on their Civil Servant's advice then they'll be steered towards the HO's swivel eyed attitude. If the minister has authoritarian leanings to start with the Civil Servants will feed it. It would take a strong willed minister with clear ideas and principles to counter the departmental worldview, and they're so unusual it's unlikely they'd be dumped into the losers role of Home Secretary in the first place.

I've never, ever heard this, and I'm CS myself
I suppose the above is highly believable given Home Office outcomes, but I'd always (naively) blamed the culture and policy just on ministers being authoritarian tools

 

[tony.c]

Priti Patel's suggestion that Royal Navy warships are used to prevent Channel crossings by migrants described as 'potty'.

Migrants at risk of drowning if Priti Patel sends warships to Channel, says ex-home secretary

Hardline Australia-style tactics to block fragile vessels also condemned as 'completely potty' by defence official

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Streathamite]

I think one of the reasons for this is the culture of the Home Office. Within the Civil Service the HO is notorious for being staffed by right wing headbangers. If a minister gets appointed who doesn't really care about the job and just does whatever's suggested to them or if they aren't confident and rely on their Civil Servant's advice then they'll be steered towards the HO's swivel eyed attitude. If the minister has authoritarian leanings to start with the Civil Servants will feed it.

Absolutely. It goes with the territory - police, law and order, state security, civil defence, borders, immigration, MI5 counter-terror.....practically a recipe for authroitarian rightwing headbangerism

It would take a strong willed minister with clear ideas and principles to counter the departmental worldview, and they're so unusual it's unlikely they'd be dumped into the losers role of Home Secretary in the first place.

I can only think of one, Woy jenkins

 

[William of Walworth]

I think one of the reasons for this is the culture of the Home Office. Within the Civil Service the HO is notorious for being staffed by right wing headbangers. If a minister gets appointed who doesn't really care about the job and just does whatever's suggested to them or if they aren't confident and rely on their Civil Servant's advice then they'll be steered towards the HO's swivel eyed attitude. If the minister has authoritarian leanings to start with the Civil Servants will feed it.

Absolutely.
It goes with the territory - police, law and order, state security, civil defence, borders, immigration, MI5 counter-terror.....practically a recipe for authoritarian rightwing headbangerism

Streathamite : you seem to be saying that the institutionally prejudiced work of the Home Office goes together with the Home Office's staff being themselves 'right wing headbangers', to use Spandex 's words.

I was also questioning Spandex a bit earlier, about the HO's Bad Stories ........

 

[Badgers]

 

[Spandex]

I was also questioning @Spandex a bit earlier, about the HO's Bad Stories ........

tbf, it's 18 years since I hung out on the Whitehall scene. I was only a lowly AA but I found myself in a role that people were interested in and there was a lot of dealing with different departments (it wasn't unusual for some well spoken young man from the PM's Office to phone me up and ask what's this about then?) Other Civil Servants told me and my limited experience of dealing with them was that the Home Office was dominated by lock 'em all up right wingers. Nothing I saw at the time or since has given me any reason to think otherwise.

As a Civil Servant do you really think that all decisions and outcomes are all down to individual Ministers?

 

[Badgers]

“Clandestine Channel Threat Commander”.

That’s the role Priti Patel has just created, appointing a former Royal Marine to pave the way for navy warships to block migrants / turn back boats. This isn’t a sign of defiance, it’s utterly shameful. Priti Patel steps up plans for warships to block migrant crossings despite growing backlash

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm shocked, shocked that they found a British serviceman willing to even contemplate violating international law in this way.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think one of the reasons for this is the culture of the Home Office. Within the Civil Service the HO is notorious for being staffed by right wing headbangers. If a minister gets appointed who doesn't really care about the job and just does whatever's suggested to them or if they aren't confident and rely on their Civil Servant's advice then they'll be steered towards the HO's swivel eyed attitude. If the minister has authoritarian leanings to start with the Civil Servants will feed it. It would take a strong willed minister with clear ideas and principles to counter the departmental worldview, and they're so unusual it's unlikely they'd be dumped into the losers role of Home Secretary in the first place.

As far as I can see home secretaries have always been authoritarian loons before, after, and indeed during their time in office. Looking at a list that includes the likes of John Reid, Michael Howard, Winston Churchill, William Whitelaw as well as Priti Patel it's hard to avoid thinking there may be an alternative to your explanation, namely that authoritarian home secretaries get authoritarian civil servants, that authoritarian civil servants attract more of the same, and the same poisonous conditions reinforce each other in a department which in any case is unlikely to attract the socially liberal or left-wing

 

[Badgers]

 

[The39thStep]

Streathamite : you seem to be saying that the institutionally prejudiced work of the Home Office goes together with the Home Office's staff being themselves 'right wing headbangers', to use Spandex 's words.

I was also questioning Spandex a bit earlier, about the HO's Bad Stories ........

I'm not at all sure I agree with all of this tbh although I agree it goes with cycles and flavour of the month type approaches to criminal justice. and influenced by budgets. I say this because the Home Office saw in the Blair/Brown years a huge progressive transformation in approaches to young offending reducing numbers coming into the criminal justice system and reducing numbers in custody through the setting up of well funded multi agency Youth Justice teams . They also saw radical changes to reducing crime through expanding neighbourhood policing and attempts to increase community satisfaction through public consultation and prevention. . There were also initiatives to speed up the notoriously slow criminal justice system, to put more of an emphasis on victimes through victim impact statements and victim support having regular meetings with magistrates, the appointment of a victims 'commissar' , introduction of restorative justice and specific and trained domestic violence courts .None of these would have been possible if the Home Office had just been staffed with right wing headbangers.

 

[agricola]

tbf, it's 18 years since I hung out on the Whitehall scene. I was only a lowly AA but I found myself in a role that people were interested in and there was a lot of dealing with different departments (it wasn't unusual for some well spoken young man from the PM's Office to phone me up and ask what's this about then?) Other Civil Servants told me and my limited experience of dealing with them was that the Home Office was dominated by lock 'em all up right wingers. Nothing I saw at the time or since has given me any reason to think otherwise.

As a Civil Servant do you really think that all decisions and outcomes are all down to individual Ministers?

Not sure about dominated by, but they do give the impression that a certain sort of thought pattern is required to get on over there. I am not sure it is necessarily hang em / flog em but it does seem to be about worshipping at the altar of managerialism.

As an example, a lot of the reforms to policing over the past forty years have come from the same sort of place irrespective of who has been in charge - attacks on the pension, attacks on it being a career, attempts at introducing an officer class (of sorts), reforming training (ie: making people pay for it), generating money by disposals of property, switching from prevention to reactive policing, attacking "Spanish practices" like being paid for overtime, "professionalising" things by establishing a Government-run licencing scheme (the College of Policing) and so on.

A few years ago the College put out a "the future" document that ran the whole gamut of idiot Home Office ideas, from them demanding the right to sack cops in order that those cops could go and get new skills and then come back to policing, to staffing a "Police Reserve" with all the cops they'd sacked and expecting that they would be able to call on them when they asked.