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the neoliberal vision of the future

There's loads of them on Twitter & on the Rally against banning circle-jerks or whatever it is. Some cunt known as Old Holborn (a grown man who dresses up as V from Vendetta) today called anonymity the greatest right of the Libertarian. I mean, fer crying out loud.

I tried to engage him in a debate about individualism, with reference to child development studies, attachment theory etc. He couldn't do it, ranted about "his work" and not being interested in anyone else's work.

Sums right "libertarians" up really.
 
I tried to engage him in a debate about individualism, with reference to child development studies, attachment theory etc. He couldn't do it, ranted about "his work" and not being interested in anyone else's work.

This is what puzzles me. It is so clearly, and provably, nonsense.
 
If we're talking about anti-semitism, lest we forget that there were none more fanatical in that regard than the modern hero of capitalist enthusiasts today, Henry Ford:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/ford1.html

Excuse me!?!? Henry Ford an enthusiast of capitalism!?!?!?!? Henry Ford was a great industrialist but politically he was an outspoken admirer of Fascism, including giving money contributions to the Nazi-party. In America Ford was at the time a well-known progressive and adherent of "welfare capitalism." I.e. he was a rightwing socialist.
 
Why are some people rich and others poor?

Also, if you ever have children, will you bring them up to believe that selfishness is good and altruism is bad?

What kind of people do you think those children will grow up to be?
 
Excuse me!?!? Henry Ford an enthusiast of capitalism!?!?!?!? Henry Ford was a great industrialist but politically he was an outspoken admirer of Fascism, including giving money contributions to the Nazi-party. In America Ford was at the time a well-known progressive and adherent of "welfare capitalism." I.e. he was a rightwing socialist.

Your libel on the French socialists of the 1920s - could you address that issue now please?
 
Ayn Rand and the VIP-DIPers
Huffington Post December 5, 2010
Say it ain't so Alisa Zinovievna Rosenbaum.

A heavy smoker who refused to believe that smoking causes cancer brings to mind those today who are equally certain there is no such thing as global warming. Unfortunately, Miss Rand was a fatal victim of lung cancer.

However, it was revealed in the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) that in the end Ayn was a vip-dipper as well. An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).
 
How convenient. The fact of the matter is that at the time the radical socialism of communism was only ONE of the kinds of socialisms that were around. There were also the Fabian socialists which gave rise to social democracy and these were enchanted with Hitler and Mussolini.

I am quite certain that by the standards that your textbooks judge Hitler and Mussolini not to be socialists then social democrats would not be considered socialists either. (In fact, Stalin and the communists absolutely did NOT view them as socialists because they gave concessions to private property) So to me a much more interesting comparison is between Hitler/Mussolini and the social democratic regimes of Europe *today*. You will find that there is extremely little that distinguishes the British Labour Party from the Nation Socialist German Labour Party in economic policy. In fact, in most areas the Nazis were to the LEFT of TODAY's center.

A few points:

1) You've selectively edited my post to elide the fact that I mention the UK's "liberal elite" (you know, the Fabians and such!). Disingenuous of you, but no more than I'd expect. Decontextualisation of selective quotes is a standard operating procedure of your ilk.

2) Comparing "then" and "now" is fatuous. Politics evolves, discourses change, the normative meaning of words differ now from then.

3) Given the shift from a social-democratic to a neo-liberal economic mode, it's hardly surprising that, faced with promulgating the same message, political parties dress their surrender to neo-liberalism in the tattered garlands of the past. The Labour party (hah!) hasn't been a party of labour for 30+ years, some would argue much longer, and the Conservatives? They too lost the right to call themselves such when they first embraced neo-liberalism. Neither, however, stop using those names, and contaminating the meaning of the words "labour" and "conservative".

Now, perhaps you'll forego the practice of selective editing? I'd hate to have to point up every instance of you doing so. That would make you look foolish, and we wouldn't want that, would we?
 
Excuse me!?!? Henry Ford an enthusiast of capitalism!?!?!?!? Henry Ford was a great industrialist but politically he was an outspoken admirer of Fascism, including giving money contributions to the Nazi-party. In America Ford was at the time a well-known progressive and adherent of "welfare capitalism." I.e. he was a rightwing socialist.

He was a raving anti-Semite, which is a point that you've sidestepped. What is "right wing socialism" when it's at home?
 
Why are some people rich and others poor?

Also, if you ever have children, will you bring them up to believe that selfishness is good and altruism is bad?

What kind of people do you think those children will grow up to be?

parenting is fascist, don't forget
 
Excuse me!?!? Henry Ford an enthusiast of capitalism!?!?!?!? Henry Ford was a great industrialist but politically he was an outspoken admirer of Fascism, including giving money contributions to the Nazi-party. In America Ford was at the time a well-known progressive and adherent of "welfare capitalism." I.e. he was a rightwing socialist.

Funny how many great industrialists (i.e. capitalist ubermench) were also supporters of Nazism:

Eventually, most American captains of industry learned to love the Führer. It is often hinted that fascination with Hitler was a matter of personalities, a matter of psychology. Authoritarian personalities supposedly could not help but like and admire a man who preached the virtues of the "leadership principle" and practised what he preached first in his party and then in Germany as a whole.

Although he cites other factors as well, it is essentially in such terms that Edwin Black, author of the otherwise excellent book IBM and the Holocaust, explains the case of IBM chairman Thomas J. Watson, who met Hitler on a number of occasions in the 1930s and became fascinated with Germany's authoritarian new ruler. But it is in the realm of political economy, not psychology, that one can most profitably understand why corporate America embraced Hitler.

In the 1920s many big American corporations enjoyed sizeable investments in Germany. IBM established a German subsidiary, Dehomag, before World War I; in the 1920s General Motors took over Germany's largest car manufacturer, Adam Opel AG; and Ford founded a branch plant, later known as the Ford-Werke, in Cologne. Other US firms contracted strategic partnerships with German companies. Standard Oil of New Jersey — today's Exxon — developed intimate links with the German trust IG Farben. By the early 1930s, an élite of about twenty of the largest American corporations had a German connection including Du Pont, Union Carbide, Westinghouse, General Electric, Gilette, Goodrich, Singer, Eastman Kodak, Coca-Cola, IBM, and ITT. Finally, many American law firms, investment companies, and banks were deeply involved in America's investment offensive in Germany, among them the renowned Wall Street law firm Sullivan & Cromwell, and the banks J. P. Morgan and Dillon, Read and Company, as well as the Union Bank of New York, owned by Brown Brothers & Harriman.

The Union Bank was intimately linked with the financial and industrial empire of German steel magnate Thyssen, whose financial support enabled Hitler to come to power. This bank was managed by Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush. Prescott Bush was allegedly also an eager supporter of Hitler, funnelled money to him via Thyssen, and in return made considerable profits by doing business with Nazi Germany; with the profits he launched his son, the later president, in the oil business. 6 American overseas ventures fared poorly in the early 1930s, as the Great Depression hit Germany particularly hard. Production and profits dropped precipitously, the political situation was extremely unstable, there were constant strikes and street battles between Nazis and Communists, and many feared that the country was ripe for a "red" revolution like the one that had brought the Bolsheviks to power in Russia in 1917...

In the 1930s, the anti-Semitism of corporate America likewise revealed itself to be the other side of the coin of anti-socialism, anti-Marxism, and red-baiting. Most American businessmen denounced Roosevelt's New Deal as a "socialistic" meddling in the economy. The anti-Semites of corporate America considered Roosevelt to be a crypto-Communist and an agent of Jewish interests, if not a Jew himself; he was routinely referred to as "Rosenfeld," and his New Deal was vilified as the "Jew Deal." 17

In his book The Flivver King, Upton Sinclair described the notoriously anti-Semitic Henry Ford dreaming of an American fascist movement that "pledged to put down the Reds and preserve the property interests of the country; to oust the Bolshevik [Roosevelt] from the White House and all his pink professors from the government services ... [and] to make it a shooting offense to talk communism or to call a strike." 18 Other American tycoons also yearned for a fascist saviour who might rid America of its "reds" and thus restore prosperity and profitability. Du Pont provided generous financial support to America's own fascist organizations, such as the infamous "Black Legion," and was even involved in plans for a fascist coup d'état in Washington. (Hofer and Reginbogin, 585–6) 19

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4607

I wonder who's interests the Nazi's pursued in power?
 
Nine communities were under threat to be destroyed and the people displaced.

It would appear that an "agreement" has since been made between the people and the state to "protect" these communities and "promises" have also been made to give them a 'stake in the future of the free trade zone'.

Now, what's the odds that these "agreements", "promises" and 'stake holdings' will be kept do you think?

No glib answers now.

As I said initially I don't know this project and know nothing about who has been displaced or not (which obviously I don't support). If you have paid a little bit of attention to the Free State Initiative then you know that it wants to create a Free State in an *unpopulated* area with no natural resources. An important motivation for doing this is precisely to avoid infringing the rights of the locals.

The thing that makes me cautious about the Lekki-project is that it is mainly a Chinese project, and China does in general not promote liberty, but rather national interests.
 
Excuse me!?!? Henry Ford an enthusiast of capitalism!?!?!?!? Henry Ford was a great industrialist but politically he was an outspoken admirer of Fascism, including giving money contributions to the Nazi-party. In America Ford was at the time a well-known progressive and adherent of "welfare capitalism." I.e. he was a rightwing socialist.

In my opinion Fordism is where Marxism breaks down. Mass production requires mass consumption. Ford knew this even though he was also a twat.

Just my opinion mind.
 
I wonder who's interests the Nazi's pursued in power?

millions_stand.jpg
 
You want people to move to an unpopulated area with no natural resources? :D

How about Antarctica? Or the Kalahari Desert perhaps.

China does in general not promote liberty, but rather national interests.

Just like the US and UK, and lots of other countries, then.
 
He was a raving anti-Semite, which is a point that you've sidestepped.

Yes, he was a right wing socialist. Obviously it makes sense that he was a raving anti-Semite.


What is "right wing socialism" when it's at home?

Left wing socialism emphasizes direct government ownership and operation (i.e. communism) whereas right wing socialism emphasizes indirect government ownership and control through regulations and taxation. (i.e. corporatism) Mussolini, Hitler and FDR were all right wing socialists.
 
On what will the people who move to this unpopulated area with no natural resources live?

Is what you're actually talking about some kind of relatively small commune in which people live a communist lifestyle?
 
As I said initially I don't know this project and know nothing about who has been displaced or not (which obviously I don't support). If you have paid a little bit of attention to the Free State Initiative then you know that it wants to create a Free State in an *unpopulated* area with no natural resources. An important motivation for doing this is precisely to avoid infringing the rights of the locals.

The thing that makes me cautious about the Lekki-project is that it is mainly a Chinese project, and China does in general not promote liberty, but rather national interests.

You said initially that it boded welll for the future of Africa. You said this despite (as you now admit) not knowing the project and 'knowing nothing about who has been displaced or not'. But then you seem very keen on shouting the odds about things you know little or nothing about.

I'm still waiting for you to retract your libel against Leon Blum and his party, btw.
 
On the contrary, the connection between Jews and capitalists were very well known among socialists some 100 years ago. Here is one of my favorite cartoons to prove my point:

Gallery-Political-Cartoon-003.jpg


It is a cartoon made in the 1920s by FRENCH SOCIALISTS. Let me translate it for you (I love this):

"The Jews hold 2/3 of the riches of the world!
For every 100 Jews: 80 capitalists.
For every 100,000 French: 1 capitalist."

I'm quite capable of reading simple French, thanks, and I'm long-familiar with that particular political cartoon.
Oh, and you elided the title, which is "The Jewish capitalist". Not, you'll note, "The Jew/Capitalist" or "Jewish capital" but a phrase that clearly refers to a Jew who happens to be a capitalist.

I note also that you provide absolutely no context for the cartoon. But then you wouldn't, would you, because that would require explaining that anti-Semitism wasn't merely a function of French socialism at the time, but a pernicious practice that permeated the entire political spectrum as well as all the strata of society.

The numbers aren't correct, but that's beside the point. The point is that socialists at the time BELIEVED this to be true and that they saw the Jew and the capitalist as one and the same animal. (a pig as it turned out, "Judenschwein" and "capitalist pig" are the same expression)

Repeating a falsehood does not move the falsehood toward being truth, unless your intellect is feeble enough to be overcome by simple indoctrination.

"Capitalist" and "Jew" have never been synonymous, not in the German or Austro-Hungarian empires, not in the British empire, and certainly not in the empire of the Tsars. To claim that they are is intellectually dishonest. "Jew" may well (in fact can be said to) constitute a subset of "capitalist", but that's all.
 
Ah, Kalahari it is then. :)

Which of course begs the question: Where do the funds to set this up come from? What kinds of exploitation have been practiced to gather together the resources needed to set it up? Would I be able to come and live there?
 
Yes, he was a right wing socialist. Obviously it makes sense that he was a raving anti-Semite.




Left wing socialism emphasizes direct government ownership and operation (i.e. communism) whereas right wing socialism emphasizes indirect government ownership and control through regulations and taxation. (i.e. corporatism) Mussolini, Hitler and FDR were all right wing socialists.

You not only have a one-track mind but have a rather peculiar take on socialism. But that's no surprise since anyone who steeps themselves in Randist texts does not a have a complete picture of the world. Your repetition of selected 'facts' like "Mussolini, Hitler and FDR were all right wing socialists" is a narrative that is not supported by hard evidence. It treats the subjects in isolation from history. FDR was "right wing" and a "fascist" was one of the biggest lies disseminated by corporate America and Herbert Hoover. Presumably you're not even the slightest bit familiar with the Business Plot to overthrow FDR and replace him with Douglas MacArthur or a similar figure?
 
How can a market be free when limited, essential resources are owned by some people and not by others?

Resources such as, but not limited to, LAND?

Because a "free market" doesn't mean "free access to the market for all", it means "a market free of regulation that allows capital free rein".

Obviously, "free rein" means "licence to shit on anyone or anything that gets in capital's way".
 
Ah, Kalahari it is then. :)

Which of course begs the question: Where do the funds to set this up come from? What kinds of exploitation have been practiced to gather together the resources needed to set it up? Would I be able to come and live there?

Setting up a whole new society is a big task lbj, but nothing's too big to take a couple off from to respond to your critics on U75.
 
Problem is, there is a germ of truth in what Onan says. FDR was corporatist and he did something similar-ish to Peron after him in that he suppressed/co-opted real socialists and socialist labour movements.

It's an idiotic comparison, but then in Onan's world, govt activity = socialism, even if that activity is directed towards supporting private business.

It's odd the way FDR is such a hate-figure to these people, though. Tell me, Onan, what would have been your reaction to the depression?
 
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