Fully Automated Luxury Communism by Aaron Bastani – a manifesto for the future

[tedsplitter]

What have cooperatives got to do with communism? And how do you "start a communist society" within a global capitalist system? You're out of your element, nardy.

Perfect profile pic / post combo.

 

[Serge Forward]

Perfect profile pic / post combo.

 

[cantsin]

Fully automated luxury communism

A 2015 Guardian article. Do that Novara Media lot ever come up with anything original. Fucking Careerists.

lolz, ffs

 

[cantsin]

It's just shallow trendy left politics, not much to it really. The basic idea is that under communism technology could massively improve living standards, but there's nothing about how we get from here to there. In fact Bastani regurgitates a sort of reheated Stalinism whereby communism becomes an inevitability at a certain stage of the development of the productive forces, and class struggle is relegated to a sociologically interesting phenomenon.

straight question : have you read the book yet ?

Edit : I see you haven't, but claim there's nothing new / original in terms of the basic premises / concepts - who in particular do you consider to have already covered this ground ?

 

[seventh bullet]

He has already mentioned someone in that very post.

 

[cantsin]

A multi-billion industry. Right. Think about that. It represents a further concentration of wealth in the hands of technology companies and their shareholders. It means cutting ourselves off from the planet. It is anti-ecological. It is reprehensible human arrogance, to satisfy our own wants at all costs. The only reason this is getting big is because of the well-known impact the raising of real meat has on the environment. Solution? Create "fake" meat (I assume that's what we're talking about here, lab-grown meat, as opposed to vegetable substitutes)... because that's okay isn't it? Do away with their organs, lives, "animality", and reduce them to their lab-grown flesh for our consumption. It's horrific.

What it represents for me is a further retreat away from contact with nature and an invitation for CAPITALISTS (not FALC fantasist collectives) to be responsible for our food supply. Forget about your local farmers. Consign them to the dustbin of history. "Science" will provide all the food. But who owns that science? Who owns that future?

That's precisely the problem with this FALC shit. These things could all come about, the asteroid mining and the synthetic meat and all the other wanky sci-fi fantasy shit they love. They probably will come about, sooner or later. But they won't be communist. They won't be collectively owned. They will be within a system of oppression.

Synthetic meat is voluntarily putting yet another middle man between you and the food you eat. I believe the less middle men there are between me and ANYTHING I consume, the better it is, because I contribute less to corporate profits.

huh ?

AB / FALC brigade are specifically looking at "the asteroid mining and the synthetic meat and all the other wanky sci-fi fantasy shit they love" as central to their post capitalist / 'communist ' vision, so for you to arbitrarily declare " they won't be communist. They won't be collectively owned. They will be within a system of oppression " just makes no sense.

If you want to question a possible lack of focus on how to get to the techno-commie utopia, fair enough, but to to just decide that :
" Synthetic meat is voluntarily putting yet another middle man between you and the food you eat. I believe the less middle men there are between me and ANYTHING I consume, the better it is, because I contribute less to corporate profits " is just denying that there's any hope of the C in FALC - and is defeatist, non dialectical gubbins

 

[cantsin]

He has already mentioned someone in that very post.

Uncle Joe ? Lol, he may have had ideas about Automated Communism, but it's a bit of a (massive fucking ) stretch to compare Novara's libertarian tinged - Left Dem / Socialism to the totalitarian / genocidal horrors of Stalinism

 

[seventh bullet]

It's not about the means, or a caricature of them. You could also go LOL at the ongoing CV writing of people who really want a place in more established media as well remunerated commentators/columnists.

 

[SpackleFrog]

straight question : have you read the book yet ?

Edit : I see you haven't, but claim there's nothing new / original in terms of the basic premises / concepts - who in particular do you consider to have already covered this ground ?

Marx.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Uncle Joe ? Lol, he may have had ideas about Automated Communism, but it's a bit of a (massive fucking ) stretch to compare Novara's libertarian tinged - Left Dem / Socialism to the totalitarian / genocidal horrors of Stalinism

His stagist view of history is identical to theirs.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

just public school nick land art fash shit. wasn't this idiotic manifesto supposed to be published in 2015? the pedigree of Mark Fisher i guess, cunt surrounded himself with sycophants when he fell out with everyone else.

 

[ska invita]

just public school nick land art fash shit.

I expect Paul Masons Post-Capitalism was the key influence

I don't think embracing Utopian potentials of technology is necessarily the same as right-leaning-accelerationism. In simple terms to me accelerationism is: bring on technological change and hope for the best, without any critique of the forces of power. I think that would be an unfair thing to pin on Aaron B...he seems fairly firmly rooted in the Marxist tradition.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

he's not routed in no marxist tradition. are you kidding me. money talks for him. did you miss the u-turn when he could cloy his hands into the corridors of power after surrounding himself with student ket party leftists into anarchism?

He clearly saw that was getting him nowhere.

 

[belboid]

I expect Paul Masons Post-Capitalism was the key influence

I don't think embracing Utopian potentials of technology is necessarily the same as right-leaning-accelerationism. In simple terms to me accelerationism is: bring on technological change and hope for the best, without any critique of the forces of power. I think that would be an unfair thing to pin on Aaron B...he seems fairly firmly rooted in the Marxist tradition.

It started up well before the Mason book. They're part of the same scene and undoubtedly influenced one another, same with Srnicek. Doesn't really sound like Bastani adds much to either of their books.

 

[ska invita]

They're part of the same scene and undoubtedly influenced one another, same with Srnicek.

yes, thats what i meant

he's not routed in no marxist tradition. are you kidding me. money talks for him. did you miss the u-turn when he could cloy his hands into the corridors of power after surrounding himself with student ket party leftists into anarchism? He clearly saw that was getting him nowhere.

Whatever you may think of him he's definitely read a lot of Marx and applies it theoretically, in a way that Landian accelerationists don't

 

[cantsin]

just public school nick land art fash shit. wasn't this idiotic manifesto supposed to be published in 2015? the pedigree of Mark Fisher i guess, cunt surrounded himself with sycophants when he fell out with everyone else.

Yr mugging yrself off here

 

[cantsin]

Marx.

Yeh, good, makes sense, Marx covered it all 200 + yrs ago, and as not much has happened since, it should all be left well alone , 4 EVAH

 

[Flavour]

huh ?

AB / FALC brigade are specifically looking at "the asteroid mining and the synthetic meat and all the other wanky sci-fi fantasy shit they love" as central to their post capitalist / 'communist ' vision, so for you to arbitrarily declare " they won't be communist. They won't be collectively owned. They will be within a system of oppression " just makes no sense.

Theorizing about how advanced technology could be put to good use under "communism" is, for me, masturbation. Its utopianism is itself an admittance of defeat, because the bread and butter of actually making communism happen is too boring for them and doesn't sell enough books or get enough podcast shares or whatever metric these social media leftists use nowadays. My assertion is that this is "content" designed to attract people who are usually dissuaded by hard politics stuff. I mean, look at the comments in this thread. I think it's advanced capitalism which is developing these technologies already, and there is no evidence that things are going in any direction except the greater concentration of capital/power in fewer hands. Communism is getting further away from us by the day. The old Marxist adage that communism is the natural evolution of history, of social organizational forms, is not useful in this respect, because this idea can be abused by lazy theorists who want to fantasize about FALC rather than the everyday stuff.

If you want to question a possible lack of focus on how to get to the techno-commie utopia, fair enough, but to to just decide that :
" Synthetic meat is voluntarily putting yet another middle man between you and the food you eat. I believe the less middle men there are between me and ANYTHING I consume, the better it is, because I contribute less to corporate profits " is just denying that there's any hope of the C in FALC - and is defeatist, non dialectical gubbins

"Non-dialectical" - explain please. And yes I am denying the possibility of C in FALC. Under current conditions and trends which this book will not do anything to change.

 

[seventh bullet]

Utopian thinking can be useful. Imagining possibilities. I wasn't aware that mere books 'change' things.

 

[seventh bullet]

His stagist view of history is identical to theirs.

Big Moustache wouldn't have called it FALC, what with projecting contemporary conditions into the past. It'd be more along the lines of a mechanised communism in which labour is a joy, with a vastly reduced working day, rather than an unwelcome compulsion. The ever higher forms it could reach couldn't be fully realised until 'socialism' as they understood it had been established worldwide, the nationally defined development of countries eventually being superceded by a fusing of all peoples.

You can see the above without agreeing with the methods.

 

[eoin_k]

Yeh, good, makes sense, Marx covered it all 200 + yrs ago, and as not much has happened since, it should all be left well alone , 4 EVAH

To be fair, 'Marx' isn't that bad an answer, since accelerationism draw so heavily on a selective reading of him. But, what if capitalism finds a way to continue to function with ever-increasing automation in some sectors combined with a corresponding rise in low-paid, low-status, shit-work in others operating with very little constant capital? Then we'd have a realistic vision of the bleak future this demand points towards: one that looks quite like the present just a bit worse.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

yes, thats what i meant

Whatever you may think of him he's definitely read a lot of Marx and applies it theoretically, in a way that Landian accelerationists don't

They do, they just take the other side. they take the side of the bourgeoisie. if anything landian accelerationists are more logical. let capitalism rampage and destroy all community.

Left accelerationists say let shit speed up even more but our student cripuscules will be able to be in the drivers hot seat.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

this idea that the far right is dumb and the left can never be contaminated/influenced by them because they are a cultural vanguard is so old its cringe.

 

[ska invita]

what if capitalism finds a way to continue to function with ever-increasing automation in some sectors combined with a corresponding rise in low-paid, low-status, shit-work in others operating with very little constant capital? Then we'd have a realistic vision of the bleak future this demand points towards: one that looks quite like the present just a bit worse.

Thats exactly what Four Futures thinks about so clearly...As posted upthread: Four Futures summarised by the author here Four Futures - see Exterminism particularly for the worst outcome...I think theres a notable trend towards Rentism already in action

 

[SpineyNorman]

NOVARA MEDIA LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

I had a good old read at the OP's link, then pissed myself with wonder that anyone could think that will ever work.
Apart from the gentleman who penned that work being a failed capitalist playing at being a communist, his work is total and utter bollocks.
The sound of a communist utopia with poverty a thing of the past and work something only machines do is frankly lovely, but also hopelessly impractical for a set of basic reasons:

• With no financial incentive to do anything, who is going to bother getting their arse out of bed?
• There's always someone who will see an angle, a way to get something other people don't have, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop that because that's human nature
• Nobody would have anything to do all day so they've sit in from of their free computers, get on to forums while getting fat, then do a keyboard warrior gig about how great capitalism is and how the world should try a new, updated version of it where everyone is a property owner, owns shares in companies, and has a true stake in society.
• Nobody would bother looking after anything because everything is free so you just pop off and get another
• Can machines look after the elderly and infirm, and keep them company, or would we still need doctors. nurses, and care staff? If we do, why would anyone want to do those jobs when they get nothing for their efforts?

This is just communism of old, but with a bit of added sci-fi.

I'd never considered those points. Now you've said human nature a few times it's completely smashed my naive communist beliefs and I'm going to become a tedious centrist too.

Something about Cuban doctors.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Extreme socialism

Like extreme ironing. Collectivise the means of production while going down a waterfall in a canoe

 

[eoin_k]

Thats exactly what Four Futures thinks about so clearly...As posted upthread: Four Futures summarised by the author here Four Futures - see Exterminism particularly for the worst outcome...I think theres a notable trend towards Rentism already in action

I've not read this, but George Cafentzis made the point years ago (republished in In Letters of Blood and Fire). It relates to arguments that go back to when the most relevant passages of Marx began circulating in the late 1960s and 1970s.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I'd never considered those points. Now you've said human nature a few times it's completely smashed my naive communist beliefs and I'm going to become a tedious centrist too.

Something about Cuban doctors.

I prefer to think of myself as slightly left of centre, but a little more left when it comes to NHS finding and other major social issues such as taxation of the rich and poor.
I hope I haven't disillusioned you too much but, if I have really destroyed your communist bent, welcome to reality

 

[SpineyNorman]

I prefer to think of myself as slightly left of centre, but a little more left when it comes to NHS finding and other major social issues such as taxation of the rich and poor.
I hope I haven't disillusioned you too much but, if I have really destroyed your communist bent, welcome to reality

Truly, the scales have fallen from my eyes.

They should send you around schools as part of the prevent strategy.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Truly, the scales have fallen from my eyes.

They should send you around schools as part of the prevent strategy.

I'm not sure that would reduce the number of terrorist atrocities.