The Nazis - left wing or right wing?
- Thread starter In Bloom
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nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I hear the sound of tumbleweed coming from Johnny's corner. 
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
butchersapron said:
She was the founder of the Spartacus Bund, the precursor to the German Communist party.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Come on, you can do at least some of the work...Random said:
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Relevance? There is none, O cryptic one.
Oh, I forget, you're 'ignoring' me.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Is it me or is Johnny being deliberately obtuse?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
'Bluffing' is what i'd call it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
toggle said:
Mmmm, I was wondering where pbman has got to. Perhaps Johnny PM'ed him and told him not to come back until he (Johnny) had smoothed things over by confusing us with oblique references to historical left-wing figures?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
toggle said:
Exactly. If it's one thing Johnny likes to do it is to play the innocent as well as providing [not so] clever wee diversions. I have had him cornered many times and this is his usual tactic. He's incredibly dishonest...no surprise then that he is a lawyer (and on the basis of his shoddy posts, he's not a very good lawyer).
Nazis were right-wing
The nazis were obviously right-wing, being for a powerful state run and owned by big business exploiters and against the producers. The individual was despised - the nation was all. Conquest and subjugation of 'inferior' nations and races they justified, so they were imperialist and racist as well.
Left wingers support the exploited producers against exploiting big business and their lapdogs in government. They envision change towards a better, freer more creative adventurous and productive society, not a return to the past or the dullness of contemporary class-ridden bourgeois mediocrity
The nazis were obviously right-wing, being for a powerful state run and owned by big business exploiters and against the producers. The individual was despised - the nation was all. Conquest and subjugation of 'inferior' nations and races they justified, so they were imperialist and racist as well.
Left wingers support the exploited producers against exploiting big business and their lapdogs in government. They envision change towards a better, freer more creative adventurous and productive society, not a return to the past or the dullness of contemporary class-ridden bourgeois mediocrity
National Socialism in Germany during it's early conception was not nessescarily about big business, but partly about- and to a limited degree- hierarchial workers involvement in the control of industry(1). Hitler, who did not originate the idea of National Socialism, or indeed the kind of chauvinism and racism(2) that came to colour Nazism with later terrifying sophistication forgot about the middle class his party said they would protect when he got into bed with the industrialists and old money.
If you think of Ernst Roehm, the young man buggering, beer swilling leader of the SA, he hated the idea of the old elite being co-opted into the Nazi movement; and this perhaps in part brought his downfall, along with ideas to incorporate his SA into a regular armed force and resentment against Hitler himself, with suggestions towards overthrowing him.
1: See Anton Drexler
2: See Houston Stewart Chamberlain
If you think of Ernst Roehm, the young man buggering, beer swilling leader of the SA, he hated the idea of the old elite being co-opted into the Nazi movement; and this perhaps in part brought his downfall, along with ideas to incorporate his SA into a regular armed force and resentment against Hitler himself, with suggestions towards overthrowing him.
1: See Anton Drexler
2: See Houston Stewart Chamberlain
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Are you that easily distracted?toggle said:
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
apols people; only half done; due to v serious work pressure. will PM tonight (c. midnight!ViolentPanda said:
) - I'm really busy.... 
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Has anyone noticed how Johnny has switched tack?
Things are looking increasingly desperate for best Canadian friend the USG has.
Things are looking increasingly desperate for best Canadian friend the USG has.
Bump because I've looked at this thread for the first time since it was only one and half pages long. I checked it out because VP and toggle recommended a look on one of the recent General threads -- the one Batboy started about America, and on which I first saw that pbman had just returned. Was woindering fairly ignorantlly why he'd disappeared for a while, the reason's obvious to me now ... 
I belatedly agree, unequivocally : pbman should be banned. I'm astonished he wasn't. Perhaps Jezza (or someone) can PM me (or post here??) with some details of his pre-Xmas efforts to ensure this?? Cos it looked like those efforts failed
And if I've ever said anything polite about pbman (or to him) in the past, I apologise to Urban for that. Any courtesy to pbman from me duly withdrawn, for what little that's worth.
Also, JC2, the comments from some about what you were doing on this thread look correct to me, You looked like you were doing anything you could think of to distract attention from pbman's disgraceful antisemitism.
He's too stupid for you to defend. Why not admit that??
I belatedly agree, unequivocally : pbman should be banned. I'm astonished he wasn't. Perhaps Jezza (or someone) can PM me (or post here??) with some details of his pre-Xmas efforts to ensure this?? Cos it looked like those efforts failed
And if I've ever said anything polite about pbman (or to him) in the past, I apologise to Urban for that. Any courtesy to pbman from me duly withdrawn, for what little that's worth.
Also, JC2, the comments from some about what you were doing on this thread look correct to me, You looked like you were doing anything you could think of to distract attention from pbman's disgraceful antisemitism.
He's too stupid for you to defend. Why not admit that??
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
William of Walworth said:: pbman should be banned. I'm astonished he wasn't. Perhaps Jezza (or someone) can PM me (or post here??) with some details of his pre-Xmas efforts to ensure this?? Cos it looked like those efforts failed
And if I've ever said anything polite about pbman (or to him) in the past, I apologise to Urban for that. Any courtesy to pbman from me duly withdrawn, for what little that's worth.
For what it's worth William, I have never once said a single polite thing about the little white supremacist, redneck, inbred, chicken-choking cunt, and I have said more than enough for both of us.
As for JC2, I guess he likes to flit between Devils Advocate and defender of the realm - but he did the same thing with pbman's buddy Diesel, if I remember rightly, and look what a mad, racist, currently-being-made-to-suck-big-black-penises-in-jail motherfucker Diesel turned out to be!
Let JC2 make his own way.
Right now we got us a dumb gun-toting illiterate rape-endorsing yank to get shot of.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
William of Walworth said:Bump because I've looked at this thread for the first time since it was only one and half pages long. I checked it out because VP and toggle recommended a look on one of the recent General threads -- the one Batboy started about America, and on which I first saw that pbman had just returned. Was woindering fairly ignorantlly why he'd disappeared for a while, the reason's obvious to me now ...
I belatedly agree, unequivocally : pbman should be banned. I'm astonished he wasn't. Perhaps Jezza (or someone) can PM me (or post here??) with some details of his pre-Xmas efforts to ensure this?? Cos it looked like those efforts failed
And if I've ever said anything polite about pbman (or to him) in the past, I apologise to Urban for that. Any courtesy to pbman from me duly withdrawn, for what little that's worth.
Also, JC2, the comments from some about what you were doing on this thread look correct to me, You looked like you were doing anything you could think of to distract attention from pbman's disgraceful antisemitism.
He's too stupid for you to defend. Why not admit that??
I haven't read the thread for about three weeks. As I recall, my point was that there was some validity to the view that the rise of Nazism was assisted by a fear of communism in Germany.
I believe I also said in the thread that to the extent that pbman is saying that the jews somehow brought the holocaust on themselves, I totally disagree.
I raised the issue of german communism on the thread because, well, it isn't too interesting to have all the herd galloping in one direction, is it?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
pk said:
Diesel misled me and others as to who he truly was. He didn't hide that fact that his views were right wing, but as it turned out, the bulk of those cold views lay well below the waterline.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's an extremely disingenuous re-telling of what happened and pbman's claims and his subsequent attempts to defend those claims.Johnny Canuck2 said:
mod
A modernist
Sort of gone off the original point here chaps.
The Nazis - left wing or right wing?
Their ideological structure is too complex to simply label them 'left' or 'right' wing. Far too complex. In theory they were both and their full name is the best indication of their direction. National Socialist. A form of socialism within their own strict Nationalism. Hitler included red in their flag to represent socialism. National Socialism was bordering on a fanatical, religious movement in my opinion. This becomes more pertinent when one delves further into the structure and beliefs of the SS and there obsession with the occult.
Comparisons to modern day Islamic fundamentalism shows many similarities between these two truculent forces. And again could you label Al Qaeda left or right wing? No, it would be impossible.
The Nazis - left wing or right wing?
Their ideological structure is too complex to simply label them 'left' or 'right' wing. Far too complex. In theory they were both and their full name is the best indication of their direction. National Socialist. A form of socialism within their own strict Nationalism. Hitler included red in their flag to represent socialism. National Socialism was bordering on a fanatical, religious movement in my opinion. This becomes more pertinent when one delves further into the structure and beliefs of the SS and there obsession with the occult.
Comparisons to modern day Islamic fundamentalism shows many similarities between these two truculent forces. And again could you label Al Qaeda left or right wing? No, it would be impossible.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So tell us what socialist elements were there to Hitlers policies once in power.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Johnny Canuck2 said:
But that still doesn't stop you from defending pbman whenever the mood suits you.
You and your pet monkey are obsessed with the "rise of communism" to such an extent that you want to rewrite history to suit your political opinions.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Johnny Canuck2 said:
I don't beleive that and given your position on the issue of race on other threads, I find it unacceptable that you would defend not only pbman but declare that dilute micro would give 'balance' to a thread that I began on Neo-Confederacy in the US. Is it any wonder why I find it difficult to trust someone who clearly has no scruples?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
butchersapron said:
It's not a disingenuous retelling of my part.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It is of Pbmans claims though.
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