The Labour Conference

[savoloysam]

Anyone seriously believe that Labour will repeal anything the tories have done? Really?

The only difference I predict will be a bit more tax and spend (on things like the NHS) which isn't a bad thing so long as the tax comes from the right place.

Benefits and the like won't change under Labour. In fact it was them that started the "stricter benefit regime" the Tories just picked it up and ran with it as you would expect them to do.

 

[tony heath]

It may be easier living under Labour, especially for the privileged classes.

 

[Flavour]

Together... Yeah heard that one before... David Cameron wasn't it? We're in this together. Lovely sound bite that. Only he never specified what "this" was...

Edit: Not the right choice of words

 

[butchersapron]

You need to think about how you express yourself mate.

 

[Flavour]

Agreed.

Anyway. Back on the topic of the actual conference some mates of mine in Manchester put this up around the corner from the venue... Not a great video but some honest responses.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It was stupid and wrong but compared to the coalition parties' attacks on disabled people it's not exactly comparable

Perhaps not (although most of we disabled people do still attend to the fact that Labour started the shit-rain falling on our heads, and that the coalition have merely continued that), but it signals the attitude of the upper reaches of the party in a most illuminating manner.

 

[articul8]

Perhaps not (although most of we disabled people do still attend to the fact that Labour started the shit-rain falling on our heads, and that the coalition have merely continued that), but it signals the attitude of the upper reaches of the party in a most illuminating manner.

Whilst it's entirely fair to attack the previous Labour government for introducing WCA/conditionality, ATOS, sanctions etc the Tories have gone much further in abolishing DLA, capping benefits, giving subinflation increases, cutting budgets for carers...

But I agree it's the neoliberal agenda that needs fighting, and that won't be resolved by kicking out the Tories.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whilst it's entirely fair to attack the previous Labour government for introducing WCA/conditionality, ATOS, sanctions etc the Tories have gone much further in abolishing DLA, capping benefits, giving subinflation increases, cutting budgets for carers...

All of which were also proposed by various Labour-aligned think-tanks back when Labour were in power, too, except for sub-inflation increases. The policy ideas came from the supposedly-ameliorative proponents of capitalism, not the red-in-tooth-and-claw side.

But I agree it's the neoliberal agenda that needs fighting, and that won't be resolved by kicking out the Tories.

Or by electing Labour.

 

[articul8]

Or by electing Labour.

Not in itself no. But there's a strong case for punishing IDS/Esther McVain and fighting inside and outside Labour to push back against the neoliberal wing.

 

[butchersapron]

Why does everyone think that you're a two faced wanker?

 

[butchersapron]

Push back. Letter. Pressure. Resist. Oppose.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not in itself no. But there's a strong case for punishing IDS/Esther McVain and fighting inside and outside Labour to push back against the neoliberal wing.

what fighting inside labour are you doing?

 

[Pickman's model]

Push back. Letter. Pressure. Resist. Oppose.

all we need is 'build' and 'renew' and we've the lot i think

 

[butchersapron]

Send a message.

 

[Pickman's model]

grassroots

 

[butchersapron]

Milady

 

[Pickman's model]

challenges ahead

 

[articul8]

Why does everyone think that you're a two faced wanker?

where's your evidence of this - a) that I am, or b) that everyone thinks it.

 

[articul8]

what fighting inside labour are you doing?

what I can, wherever I can

 

[butchersapron]

where's your evidence of this - a) that I am, or b) that everyone thinks it.

In the post I'm replying to.

 

[articul8]

In the post I'm replying to.

what's two faced about that? That is what I think!

 

[Pickman's model]

what I can, wherever I can

give us an example of what you have done.

 

[articul8]

eg. I have been part of an occupation of the (Labour-run) full Council meeting - in a protest about issuing Council Tax summonses to people on benefits - covered in the local paper and got me banned from attending the election count.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not in itself no. But there's a strong case for punishing IDS/Esther McVain and fighting inside and outside Labour to push back against the neoliberal wing.

Except that this entryism you keep touting is pointless, because there no longer exists any mechanisms by which party members can push back against "the neoliberal wing".
In fact, the sum total effect of fighting inside Labour would be for the party to lose those few street-schlepping activists that it has retained.
As for those outside Labour voting Labour on a "punish IDS/Cameron/Gideon" ticket, this benefits those voters not at all, because there's no commitment by Labour to do much about the extant legislation outside of the "Bedroom Tax", and a commitment from Balls to maintain current spending limits.

Be honest - the reason that people will vote Labour, and probably in enough swing seats to scrape Labour a majority, is because of the "a change is as good as a rest" factor - a change of personnel that implies (but doesn't deliver) a change of policies and political direction.

 

[Pickman's model]

eg. I have been part of an occupation of the (Labour-run) full Council meeting - in a protest about issuing Council Tax summonses to people on benefits - covered in the local paper and got me banned from attending the election count.

that's not fighting within the party, though, is it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why does everyone think that you're a two faced wanker?

Because his middle name is Janus?

 

[Pickman's model]

Except that this entryism you keep touting is pointless, because there no longer exists any mechanisms by which party members can push back against "the neoliberal wing".
In fact, the sum total effect of fighting inside Labour would be for the party to lose those few street-schlepping activists that it has retained.
As for those outside Labour voting Labour on a "punish IDS/Cameron/Gideon" ticket, this benefits those voters not at all, because there's no commitment by Labour to do much about the extant legislation outside of the "Bedroom Tax", and a commitment from Balls to maintain current spending limits.

Be honest - the reason that people will vote Labour, and probably in enough swing seats to scrape Labour a majority, is because of the "a change is as good as a rest" factor - a change of personnel that implies (but doesn't deliver) a change of policies and political direction.

i feel it unlikely there will be a labour majority. more likely, i think, the tories will squeak home

 

[Pickman's model]

Because his middle name is J-anus?

corrected for you

 

[articul8]

that's not fighting within the party, though, is it.

I've spoken out with others against the policies of the council in the GC meetings and elsewhere. I've voted for candidates to the NEC that refused to back the Collins reforms. I write articles for left publications aimed at other Labour party members. It's true I haven't stood for public office - but if I did you'd all attack me as a careerist so it's a no win situation.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've spoken out with others against the policies of the council in the GC meetings and elsewhere. I've voted for candidates to the NEC that refused to back the Collins reforms. I write articles for left publications aimed at other Labour party members. It's true I haven't stood for public office - but if I did you'd all attack me as a careerist so it's a no win situation.

i think you're a careerist anyway