The end of the 6 week Summer Holiday?

[scifisam]

Less women worked and it was seen as ok to let your kids out for hours on end.

That's not true for ten to fifteen years ago - you and I were both already parents then! I simply used holiday clubs and asked friends to babysit. I was fortunate that holiday clubs in London were fairly cheap and my employer was willing to accommodate me arriving late, because the club didn't start till 9am. I know one of the clubs she used to go to has now lost its funding, so it's actually more difficult now.

Holidays are the same lenghts - 2 weeks for christmas and easter, 1 for half terms. Terms only vary by a week. If you start spreading extra days through the year your going to end up with half weeks.

Depends. Many schools, particularly religious schools end up with very odd term lengths when Easter falls particularly early or late. And a week does make a difference when it comes to planning. We all look forward to the summer holidays, but we all look forward to half terms too, and there'd be more of them. It'd make it easier to schedule things like hospital appointments or visiting family members, and it would spread out childcare costs, but the main thing is it would give everyone a regular break to get their breath back before going back to the grind. I mean, school is also five days on, two days off, not ten days on, four days off, for the exact same reasons.

TBH I don't really care whether it makes it cheaper to book holidays or not. Changing the school year just to help a few parents save a bit of money on their foreign holiday would be ridiculous. I don't think that's the reason this change is being proposed.

None of this would work if local schools had wildly different term dates, of course. That is the stupid part. Still, seems like we're all in agreement on that.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

mr steev:

1) Your definition of holidays being the same lengths are "2 weeks for christmas and easter, 1 for half terms" plus a 6 week summer holiday. That is not my definition of same lengths. That's my definition of massively different lengths.
2) So you acknowledge that spring and winter school holidays in France are staggered, and it works well. You could easily do the same trick for the summer holiday.
3) You were the one who mentioned an increase in price for holidays abroad. You can't just raise this as an example of a problem, then dismiss it when it's shown to be an advantage
4) I'm not arguing that schools are there to provide childcare. I'm arguing that it's parents who have to assure their kids have childcare, and that's more easily done for smaller periods split across the year.

 

[scifisam]

They might not be.

But this is where I think this is going.

I'm not so sure about that. It would mean extra work for the headteachers too, and they'd either have to pay their staff more or have less choice in staff because the good ones would stay away, so why would they want to do that? It looks like one headteacher has done it, but I can't imagine many are that masochistic.

 

[mr steev]

3) You were the one who mentioned an increase in price for holidays abroad. You can't just raise this as an example of a problem, then dismiss it when it's shown to be an advantage

er...

You could take the family holiday during one of the other holidays, which are usually quieter and cheaper than the high summer period.

2) Allows for regional shifting of holidays, reducing peak pricing for travel

I don't take holidays abroad so the thought didn't even cross my mind until you mentioned it. I just pointed out that if holiday companies lose money they will alter their charges to make up for it

 

[Lemon Eddy]

I don't take holidays abroad so the thought didn't even cross my mind until you mentioned it. I just pointed out that if holiday companies lose money they will alter their charges to make up for it

Apologies, it wasn't you, it was not-bone-ever who posited that it'd lead to a hike:

they had better comp my mrs & her lots for the extra they will have to pay for a family holiday if they are restricted to a 4 week window, its a bad enough price leap for the normal 6 week window- it would be financial carnage if teachers were forced to take their hols in a 4 week slot

 

[chilango]

I'm not so sure about that. It would mean extra work for the headteachers too, and they'd either have to pay their staff more or have less choice in staff because the good ones would stay away, so why would they want to do that? It looks like one headteacher has done it, but I can't imagine many are that masochistic.

Not anymore.

It's desperate out there trying to get a teaching job. Plenty of good teachers working p/t, maternity contracts as CSs, TAs or jus flat out unemployed like myself. Vacancies can get 200 serious applicants. Heads can take their pick.

I don't doubt that many Heads won't go near this, yet. But the new breed of "business world" types fronting Academies etc. will be well up for it. As will their boards.

 

[Dogsauce]

It's nice having fuck all traffic on the road for my commute for a few weeks, especially on an uphill section past the school where you get all kinds of dumbass driving, U-turns in the roads without looking, parking on crossings etc. Shortening this period will piss me off.

When I was at school it was shortened to five weeks anyway, with a longer winter break, on the basis that this saved fuel costs (as the school had to be heated in winter).


Any chance of MPs taking a shorter break then? That'd only be fair.

 

[nagapie]

I'm not so sure about that. It would mean extra work for the headteachers too, and they'd either have to pay their staff more or have less choice in staff because the good ones would stay away, so why would they want to do that? It looks like one headteacher has done it, but I can't imagine many are that masochistic.

The teaching market is flooded with cheap, unqualified teachers in academies but also in comps. Headteachers are all strapped for cash so happy to hire them. Whatever the arguments this is purely to break teachers' pay and working conditions. If parents allow that because they find 6 weeks too hard and want 4 weeks in the summer, they will be being fooled into assisting in the dismantling of the profession and the move to further privitise schooling and allow working class children to be taught by people who have no formal qualifications at all.

 

[frogwoman]

I predict a lot more teachers trying to get jobs in the private sector and an increase of parents, a lot of whom will have a bit but not THAT much money, trying to get their kids into private schools, as well as many of the private schools starting to reduce their costs.

 

[chilango]

I predict a lot more teachers trying to get jobs in the private sector and an increase of parents, a lot of whom will have a bit but not THAT much money, trying to get their kids into private schools, as well as many of the private schools starting to reduce their costs.

Nah.

The private sector has already "led the market" in getting in cheap/unqualified teachers. £10k p/a for an "artist in residence" or "sciencetech" with c.40% teaching duties? Sound bad? Don't worry they might chuck in subsidised on site single accommodation (a room in school) for the ideal candidate, but it's okay they went to posh school and a Russell Group Uni so the parents will suck it up.

Even so the bottom end of the private sector is struggling. Some schools closing, some merging with academies.

Further pressure is on it's way as the govt plans to a) allow academies and free schools to make a profit (strenuously denied. But coming) and b) chase the lucrative overseas market.

 

[frogwoman]

Even so the bottom end of the private sector is struggling. Some schools closing, some merging with academies.

Doesnt surprise me

 

[chilango]

Also even the top private schools are chasing the cheapest teachers when they feel they can get away with it.

I went to an interview at a leading boarding school a while back. I had twice the experience of any other candidate shortlisted and two of the others at the interview were pretty much fresh out of college. I didn't get the post. School saves 15k p/a.

The bottom has fallen out of the teaching market.

50,000 unemployed teachers.

My little brother has just got a "job" teaching at an academy. He teaches, they pay his fees for a day of college a week. Next year they'll get someone else in to do the same I expect. A teacher for less than 10 grand a year. They'd have paid him 14 to 15 if he'd foregone the day at college and stayed unqualified.

This really really isn't about peak season holiday prices and saving people a week or two's childcare.

 

[weltweit]

I wonder what other countries do.

In France my understanding was that the whole country upped sticks and went on holiday for July and August!

 

[Greebo]

I wonder what other countries do.

In France my understanding was that the whole country upped sticks and went on holiday for July and August!

AFAIK in France and Germany school holidays are the same across an entire department or Land but slightly staggered across the entire country into two or three bands. The earliest and latest starting holiday dates for the long summer holiday are up to 2 weeks apart and taking your child out of school to go on holiday is frowned upon - hard luck if you live near a border and you've got children going to schools on different sides of it.

The advantage is that every employer knows well in advance when the school holidays are and can plan accordingly.