brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Quite. She's not going to be able to pull it off without Labour.
The Brexit process
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Yes, I realised that after I posted. Have you got any stats for Labour members (as opposed voters) that backed remain/leave? Be useful to see that breakdown. Apols if its already been posted previously.
That said, Labour membership has fundamentally shifted over 20-30 years, from mainly left wing and working class, to liberal centre and centre-right middle class, as Labour has itself moved rightwards and economically liberal. So, not sure really on that front it tells us much tbh.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Well the Sleaford by-election isn't going to change anything ultimately, a Tory is going to get re-elected. Richmond is a little harder to call but I think Goldsmith will be returned, and while officially an independent, we all know he'll be a Tory in all but name. Despite the Guardian floating a reduced majority and so early election line I don't see it happening.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
From memory ~70% of Labour members backed remain.
EDIT: Actually that's wrong I think, it was 70% of Labour voters (however you define that) that backed remain. (63% according to this article, though they don't say how they define a labour voter)
And 90% of Labour members backed remain according to YouGov polling.
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stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Yep, and this is why Labour are still nowhere on this. Corbyn might have used the opportunity to offer an alternative vision of exit, with strong pro-working class, socialist reasons as to why do so and re-connecting with Labour voters especially working class ones (lapsed members). Which we know of course he won't because the party is strongly composed of liberals and the economic right (those that actually wield the power and voice in the PLP) now that he'd be ousted. But in terms of long-term re-connecting with Labour voters/CLP level.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
There's a class based perspective on Brexit. That's what matters.
bimble
floofy
It says here that at the labour party conference in September they voted yes to a motion that says they believe the door should be kept open for a second referendum on leaving the EU once the terms of exit are more defined etc. That idea, of another referendum, is not at all popular amongst the general public far as I know, so it would suggest that members are very predominantly remain.
Labour conference backs motion on holding second EU referendum
Labour conference backs motion on holding second EU referendum
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
90% see my edit above
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Ta. Which just shows for me the huge gulf between traditional Labour voters (and especially of those working class Labour) and where Labour is positioned and has been for years. And regardless of whether people voted remain or leave.
bimble
floofy
Meanwhile, between 60 and 70 % of Tory party members voted leave ?
Party members have swung slightly to Remain – but Leave still retains an overwhelming lead | Conservative Home
Party members have swung slightly to Remain – but Leave still retains an overwhelming lead | Conservative Home
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seventh bullet
sovietwave
At least he isn't laughing at 'chavs' today.
teqniq
DisMembered
British newspapers react to judges' Brexit ruling: 'Enemies of the people'
The pro-Brexit newspapers have finally lost touch with reality
So I would contend that the publications in the linked articles and in the graphic above act as a vehicle for forming opinion amongst their readership. Their tax affairs alone are enough to realise that they don't really particularly have the interests of the people of the UK at heart. So who are the real 'enemies of the people'?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Thank heavens for the liberal 'progressive' Indie for pointing it all out then. We'd never know otherwise. Am I on urban anymore or some shit social media site?
teqniq
DisMembered
Most of the popular media publications have an agenda. I certainly don't agree with everything that the two I've linked to above have to say about a lot of stuff. The relentless campaign agains Corbyn as carried out by both of them being the most recent example. That doesn't make them wrong in this particular instance though.
in the case of this fight between liberal & conservative factions of the right both sides are wrong
teqniq
DisMembered
I think i see what you mean but would you care to elaborate?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
British newspapers react to judges' Brexit ruling: 'Enemies of the people'
The pro-Brexit newspapers have finally lost touch with reality
So I would contend that the publications in the linked articles and in the graphic above act as a vehicle for forming opinion amongst their readership. Their tax affairs alone are enough to realise that they don't really particularly have the interests of the people of the UK at heart. So who are the real 'enemies of the people'?
I'm happy enough with them being described as "enemies of the people", but then I wasn't unhappy seeing the judiciary described thus either.
However I would take serious issue with the term "illiberal elite" and the idea that they're "fuelling fascism".
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Anju
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how much happens on 23rd November. Looks like brexit supporters want a march in London but also for people UK wide to do their own thing. Only a couple of thousand interested but a lot of time before 23rd.
Study mapping referendum demographics to GE vote. If correct we are truly screwed.
Anti-Brexit parties would win 150 fewer seats than pro-Leave parties at a general election, analysis suggests
Not sure where the positives are.
Tories victorious and quite possibly in a position to gain a much bigger majority in parliament.
"Working class" votes going to the Tories and UKIP.
Hateful rhetoric escalating to the point where I fear violence is going to erupt and some of it will be directed against people.
Those on the left who may have had decent reasons for voting leave continue to sit back and make vague statements about the working class rescuing the situation but with no clue as to how this could be achieved.
Study mapping referendum demographics to GE vote. If correct we are truly screwed.
Anti-Brexit parties would win 150 fewer seats than pro-Leave parties at a general election, analysis suggests
Not sure where the positives are.
Tories victorious and quite possibly in a position to gain a much bigger majority in parliament.
"Working class" votes going to the Tories and UKIP.
Hateful rhetoric escalating to the point where I fear violence is going to erupt and some of it will be directed against people.
Those on the left who may have had decent reasons for voting leave continue to sit back and make vague statements about the working class rescuing the situation but with no clue as to how this could be achieved.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, its for us left leavers to do something - those of us with little power politically. Perhaps you could hold Labour to account on this, whilst I suspect carry on voting for them regardless.
teqniq
DisMembered
Yup ok fair point. I have edited the graphic (it wasn't mine in the first place). Leave people to draw their own conclusions.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I don't think anybody is "making vague statements about the working class rescuing the situation."
Rather that, just perhaps, we don't have any real interest in this situation being rescued...
sure. I have no sympathy with the agenda behind anti elite posturing of pro brexit press or the law & order and 'mob rule' rhetoric of the liberal press
ska invita
back on the other side
This is a thread about the Brexit Process...it was always going to be about these things, and will inevitably continue to be so.
Good time to be a constitutional lawyer
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Does this have to make everyone a lawyer? Isn't the whole point not to be a fucking lawyer?
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