Benefits of Brexit

[ska invita]

Maybe some good can come out of leaving the CAP, if that doesn't get wrecked by shit trade deals, that is.

just to be clear I think people will hate the impact of the loss of CAP, and will be upset that " livestock farmers will have lost up to 80 percent of their income by 2024 under the current plans", which will mean meat will be more expensive, more imported, and that many farming communities will be devastated.
Just like Brexit more broadly the effect will have pros and cons, and create pain for those on the sharp end.

 

[kabbes]

Kurt Vonnegut described himself as 'a man without a country' near the end if his life under Bush's America. I feel like a bit like that atm.

And this approach — of him and people like him — to vilify and dehumanise those that supported Bush rather than understand their motivations is what led 16 years later to the infinitely worse Trump. So what is the lesson here?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And this approach — of him and people like him — to vilify and dehumanise those that supported Bush rather than understand their motivations is what led 16 years later to the infinitely worse Trump. So what is the lesson here?

That is total bollocks.

 

[ska invita]

And this approach — of him and people like him — to vilify and dehumanise those that supported Bush rather than understand their motivations is what led 16 years later to the infinitely worse Trump. So what is the lesson here?

you're proceeding exactly as predicted
THOSE DISADVANTAGES AREN’T BAD ENOUGH AND I DON’T THINK THEY DISADVANTAGE ME ANYWAY YAWN

 

[kabbes]

That is total bollocks.

Ah, the voice of reason. Stick your fingers in your ears again and shout that those who voted Brexit are stupid, irrational, unstable, nationalist bigots — it’s bound to work this time.

 

[Raheem]

You misunderstand. The EU has rules on immigration from outside the EU. They applied to the UK, as a member of the bloc. They no longer apply to the UK, as the UK has left the bloc.

I don't think this is correct, you know. Member states' immigration policies are up to member states (notwithstanding FoM).

 

[kabbes]

you're proceeding exactly as predicted
THOSE DISADVANTAGES AREN’T BAD ENOUGH AND I DON’T THINK THEY DISADVANTAGE ME ANYWAY YAWN

The disadvantages do disadvantage me, actually. I have quite a few disadvantages personally. What’s more, I gain nothing concrete from Brexit and I have no love for the nation-state. But that’s my point, it’s really not just all about me.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Ah, the voice of reason. Stick your fingers in your ears again and shout that those who voted Brexit are stupid, irrational, unstable, nationalist bigots — it’s bound to work this time.

Nah. Defending internationalist thought, arguing against the scapegoating of immigrants or the imposition of new borders, for instance, is not fingers in ears. Fingers in ears is a refusal to acknowledge that this kind of thing has happened. It's the logic that makes starmer reach for the flag.

 

[Yossarian]

And this approach — of him and people like him — to vilify and dehumanise those that supported Bush rather than understand their motivations

That doesn't sound much like Kurt Vonnegut.

 

[mojo pixy]

I don't think this is correct, you know. Member states' immigration policies are up to member states (notwithstanding FoM).

I think you'll find this is only true within the scope of broader EU regulations. I'm not really up for batting it around any further, because the fact remains that (as beloved of certain right-wing brexiters), the UK now has more control over its borders and immigration policies.

What I'm trying (badly, no doubt) to say is there are more perspectives to this than a RW anti-immigration one.

 

[kabbes]

Nah. Defending internationalist thought, arguing against the scapegoating of immigrants or the imposition of new borders, for instance, is not fingers in ears. Fingers in ears is a refusal to acknowledge that this kind of thing has happened. It's the logic that makes starmer reach for the flag.

Those actions are great. Telling people that their reasons for wanting to leave the EU are meaningless and stupid, however, does not “defend internationalist thought.” Neither does labelling swathes of people as racists actually argue against the scapegoating of immigrants, regardless of his much better it makes you feel.

 

[kabbes]

That doesn't sound much like Kurt Vonnegut.

It’s very much like him in Man Without a Country

 

[kabbes]

Well, thank heavens we have a whole new thread to have the same arguments on all over again

 

[The39thStep]

Like nationalist types?

Would you describe the views of the likes of Tony Benn, EP Thompson,etc on this issue as nationalist?

 

[Spymaster]

Well, thank heavens we have a whole new thread to have the same arguments on all over again

Might as well just post more of these

 

[Maggot]

Can we stop arguing and try to stick to the point?

 

[kabbes]

A lot of pro-EU support is cosmopolitanism rather than internationalism — it manifests as a belief that the core is sophisticated whilst the periphery is backwards and inferior. So London is okay because that counts as core but the rest of the UK is periphery, to be despised. Meanwhile, the “proper” EU is the likes of France, Germany, Italy — sophisticated and desirable. It’s a mindset that allows other peripheral EU countries (such as Greece and Ireland) to be conveniently overlooked. It also sits alongside an orientalism that accepts that eastern countries need containment and civilising to be EU proper. This attitude is rife even in pro-EU coverage in the likes of the Guardian. Basically, the idea that Brexit is the preserve of nationalists whereas anti-Brexit is about being enlightened isn’t really borne out by close scrutiny.

 

[mojo pixy]

Can we stop arguing and try to stick to the point?

Come on, this is Urban75 .. arguing is the point

 

[kabbes]

Can we stop arguing and try to stick to the point?

Your point was that Brexiters are stupid. So once again, that’s what is being discussed

 

[Raheem]

I think you'll find this is only true within the scope of broader EU regulations. I'm not really up for batting it around any further..

I think you'll find "Apologies, I stand corrected" would have been a better response. I think you'll find.

 

[Maggot]

Your point was that Brexiters are stupid. So once again, that’s what is being discussed

Please show me where I said that.

 

[mojo pixy]

I think you'll find "Apologies, I stand corrected" would have been a better response. I think you'll find.

It might have been a better response to an entirely different post. But not to the one you posted.

 

[Shechemite]

James O’Brien is unhappy

 

[kabbes]

Please show me where I said that.

Oh come on

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Do we really need another thread on this? I can't see how it's any different to anything else. I'm closing it.