Benefits of Brexit
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ska invita
back on the other side
I very much doubt its dead in the water. Here's the first post Brexit major trade announcement
Freeports and Charter Cities
what are peoples thoughts on freeports. looks to me like the major post-brexit development strategy. i vaguely remember reading about freeports 20 years ago now in Naomi Kleins No Logo, and they sounded like a disaster, but i dont remember the details...
www.urban75.net
what is the "ordinary voter’s vision of brexit " anyway?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Not to many on here
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Not being part of an apparently ever closer political, economic, diplomatic and military union - one which seems to have two driving members and (now) 25 who get, eventually, dragged along with whatever is in the interests of those two?
Perhaps in one of the reasons in that remain - which in included me - lost was that while we could point to this or that convenience or personal advantage to EU membership, as well as this or that potential danger within Brexit, it simply had no positive big argument to put forward in support of this supra-national proto-state.
It seems to me that - apart from a few cranks - no one actually likes the EU and 'the project', merely accepts, or not, it's usefulness in this or that sphere.
Is that why remain lost - leave had the vision of an independent state able to shape it's own affairs, while remain merely offered a lack of queues at Dover while loudly ignoring where the EU was very obviously going?
Perhaps in one of the reasons in that remain - which in included me - lost was that while we could point to this or that convenience or personal advantage to EU membership, as well as this or that potential danger within Brexit, it simply had no positive big argument to put forward in support of this supra-national proto-state.
It seems to me that - apart from a few cranks - no one actually likes the EU and 'the project', merely accepts, or not, it's usefulness in this or that sphere.
Is that why remain lost - leave had the vision of an independent state able to shape it's own affairs, while remain merely offered a lack of queues at Dover while loudly ignoring where the EU was very obviously going?
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
I can’t really this government achieving that any more than they will “level up” “the north”. They don’t have the expertise. Of the ordinary voters I know. Their vision was “sovereignty” fishing rights even though they don’t like fish & stopping unskilled migration from the EU. They got part of that. And of course better public services & less taxes.I very much doubt its dead in the water. Here's the first post Brexit major trade announcement
looks like deregulation to meFreeports and Charter Cities
what are peoples thoughts on freeports. looks to me like the major post-brexit development strategy. i vaguely remember reading about freeports 20 years ago now in Naomi Kleins No Logo, and they sounded like a disaster, but i dont remember the details...
what is the "ordinary voter’s vision of brexit " anyway?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I'd like to think one benefit of Brexit is that we can take in more refugees than the EU would allow (because of the Freedom of Movement they like to proclaim as liberal-as-fuck but that oops only applies to Europeans) but with the tories in office for the forseeable this is really an ideological benefit rather than a practical one.
However, in time whatever ''culture'' we might ''lose'' due to not being about to travel visa-free inside the Europaische Wirtschafts Gemeinschaft will surely be rekindled through fresh and vibrant waves of immigration. IMO that would be a benefit.
However, in time whatever ''culture'' we might ''lose'' due to not being about to travel visa-free inside the Europaische Wirtschafts Gemeinschaft will surely be rekindled through fresh and vibrant waves of immigration. IMO that would be a benefit.
ska invita
back on the other side
So yeah these three are the only potentially positive things I've been able to think of:
CAP
State Aid
Breakup of the union (bit of a stretch to include here though tbh, its not reliant on Brexit at all, though is accelerating it now)
Kebabkings "Not being part of an apparently ever closer political, economic, diplomatic and military union" is a really good one, though it is far from certain what the near future of the EU is . Good reason to believe it is going to continue to centralise.
A layer of unelected bureaucracy has been removed, and a bureaucracy with a neoliberal agenda and power at that.
Its got to be good for democracy.
CAP
State Aid
Breakup of the union (bit of a stretch to include here though tbh, its not reliant on Brexit at all, though is accelerating it now)
Kebabkings "Not being part of an apparently ever closer political, economic, diplomatic and military union" is a really good one, though it is far from certain what the near future of the EU is . Good reason to believe it is going to continue to centralise.
A layer of unelected bureaucracy has been removed, and a bureaucracy with a neoliberal agenda and power at that.
Its got to be good for democracy.
ska invita
back on the other side
On immigration we now have a classist points based system. I hate it with a passion, but many pro Brexiters love it, and would say it is a positive outcome
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Um, you do know that the UK could take in as many refugees as it wanted when it was in the EU. Germany took in over a million a few years ago.
The UK has an appalling record on taking refugees and that has absolutely nothing to do with membership of the EU. It's appalling in comparison to other EU countries.
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I agree, it's shit, but my point is that we can now fuck that off whenever we decide to (whenever we can be arsed to elect a decent government anyway). 'Fortress Europe' was always and still is one of the least appealing aspects of the EU.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That's an absolutely enormous one though, but because it's idealogical rather than immediately tangible remoaners want to discount it. Cheap music gear from Germany's what really counts.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
In what year did Germany take in a million refugees?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
We're going to be taking a ton of people from Hong Kong
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
We might like to, but the PRC could well have other ideas. Haven't they just said they won't recognize the British Overseas Passport?
ska invita
back on the other side
at the height of the syria refugee crisis - after EU state after state refused to take their share - Cameron very much included
2015 i think
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
If we could convert the hot air, steam and piss being constantly emitted from remainers and convert it into energy we could be a carbon free island much faster. A clear benefit of Brexit.
ska invita
back on the other side
yes, but is it out of the frying pan and into the deregulated fire - that has been the issue to weigh up on a pros and cons list
andysays
Love and solidarity
If you can't put an immediate monetary value to it on the Brexit balance sheet, they're not interested, I'm afraid.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
It wasn't a million though. Even now in total still not a million, not by a long way. 300 000 maybe? I think firm figures are hard to find.
And they had to suspend certain EU rules to take as many as they have, which was my original point.
EtA, also related, Turkey still has over 3 million refugees from Syria living there. Why? Because the EU won't let them in.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Or we could put it to better use and drown the inmates of the palace of westminster in it.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Encapsulated it really - national self-determination Vs postage fees.
I wonder how many of the arch-remainers have the imagination to ask themselves how they think these arguments would fair in post-independence Ireland: how many Irish citizens do they think they'd have won round with sneering comments about the absence of trains or an economy in the toilet?
The complete absence of any kind of understanding of the anti-EU elements of brexit are about is a catastrophic failure of the politics of remain, and one of the reasons it so richly deserved to lose, and why it's hysterical proponents continue to deserve the contempt they have heaped upon them.
It's amusing how many of remainders on the left criticise the Labour leadership for being out of touch (mainly with them..), and having no understanding or interest in the motivations and needs of the electorate, while themselves managing to be utterly divorced from the politics of this huge issue within society...
magneze
🎧
If only the remain campaign had said that the EU was "a bit like Groupon".
ska invita
back on the other side
1 million was widely reported
1.06 million refugees in 2018 for example Germany: Refugee numbers in context
Germany on course to accept one million refugees in 2015
So far this year Europe’s leading economy has registered 964,574 new asylum seekers, more than four times the number that arrived in 2014
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
and getting food, pharmaceuticals and just about anything out of value in and out of north Ireland doesn't
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It was around a million between 2015 and 16
Five Years Later, One Million Refugees Are Thriving in Germany
There is lots to criticise the EU for, but the idea that it in any way stopped the UK from taking in more refugees is simply wrong.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
OK fair enough. I understood there were maybe half a million Syrian refugees in all of Europe. and about half of those in Germany alone.
Still, the Dublin Regulations (iirc) have had to be put aside for this, so Germany acting essentially outside EU regulations. And still millions not allowed into the EU at all.
bimble
floofy
Which countries are going to leave the bloc next do you think?
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