Benefits of Brexit

[andysays]

If only the remain campaign had said that the EU was "a bit like Groupon".

I don't know what that is, I'm afraid.

The ironic thing here is the Remainer sneering about promises on the side of a bus which are supposed to have tricked those stupid enough to fall for them into voting Leave, because the Remainers themselves apparently can't see anything beyond that sort of crude economic reasoning.

 

[mojo pixy]

It was around a million between 2015 and 16

Five Years Later, One Million Refugees Are Thriving in Germany

There is lots to criticise the EU for, but the idea that it in any way stopped the UK from taking in more refugees is simply wrong.

My point was that the EU won't take them, wherever possible. Not that we are doing so, but we can, if we ever elect a government that isn't comprised of racists and xenophobes. Outside the EU, the rules which keep over 3 million Syrians in Turkey won't apply to us.

 

[platinumsage]

Um, you do know that the UK could take in as many refugees as it wanted when it was in the EU. Germany took in over a million a few years ago.

The UK has an appalling record on taking refugees and that has absolutely nothing to do with membership of the EU. It's appalling in comparison to other EU countries.

The UK ranks pretty well compared to other island nations. Japan for example receives thousands of asylum claims each year but approves a couple of dozen, about 0.2%, compared to the UK’s 40-50% approval rate which is higher than most countries.

 

[ska invita]

If you can't put an immediate monetary value to it on the Brexit balance sheet, they're not interested, I'm afraid.

there is a balance sheet, and brexit is a policy with massive pros and cons.
its a balance sheet with money on it, but not just that, it includes rights and freedoms.
its not unreasonable to look at the balance sheet and say, fuck that its not worth it

how many people really had a clear understanding of that balance sheet before the referendum?
really had accurate information on which to base their judgement?
I didn't. Almost no one did.
not only did we not have an official document to look at possible projections like any serious referendum has, we were actively lied to on top

Time will tell how that balance sheet looks in a few years time. In the meantime its natural people losing out will be upset.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

My point was that the EU won't take them, wherever possible. Not that we are doing so, but we can, if we ever elect a government that isn't comprised of racists and xenophobes. Outside the EU, the rules which keep over 3 million Syrians in Turkey won't apply to us.

Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but your point is uttter and total bollocks. I'm not a fan of the Fortress Europe aspect of the EU either, but you're just wrong about the control you imagine the EU had over how many refugees the UK could take in.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The UK ranks pretty well compared to other island nations. Japan for example receives thousands of asylum claims each year but approves a couple of dozen, about 0.2%, compared to the UK’s 40-50% approval rate which is higher than most countries.

How does the UK fare among countries starting with the letter 'U'?

 

[Spymaster]

Which countries are going to leave the bloc next do you think?

Italy, Poland and Denmark according to Mr Farage.

 

[mojo pixy]

Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but your point is uttter and total bollocks. I'm not a fan of the Fortress Europe aspect of the EU either, but you're just wrong about the control you imagine the EU had over how many refugees the UK could take in.

You misunderstand. The EU has rules on immigration from outside the EU. They applied to the UK, as a member of the bloc. They no longer apply to the UK, as the UK has left the bloc.

There, that was me trying not to be rude, and succeeding. You should probably work on that.

 

[kebabking]

Which countries are going to leave the bloc next do you think?

Depends on what happens with Poland and Hungary.

The big crunch point could be the tension between the needs of the the Eurozone countries/Euro, and the non-Euro EU countries, and how the EU structures manage what can be contradictory objectives/means.

There could be a scism - and there's already a disagreement - between Germany and the eastern and northern states over the NordStream 2 gas pipeline from Russia: The frontier states regard it as a Trojan horse to establish/cement Russian economic control over Europe (particularly them), while Germany couldn't give a toss about Europe wide strategic issues, because it's fixated on cheap gas.

I don't predict the fall of the EU, it's survival or otherwise is a matter for its members. I'm not a member, and apart from fall out that affects the UK, I couldn't give a toss....

 

[discokermit]

the biggest benefit of brexit is to still see the whiny cunts whining.

 

[ska invita]

Italy, Poland and Denmark according to Mr Farage.

Poland may have an arsehole government, but Polish people have the most favourable opinion of the EU of all EU countries, EU money has had a massive effect on infastructure in the country, Poles are working abroad and sending money home, plus the fear of Soviet "invasion" remains real. I don't see it.

If Denmark leave they'll remain in the EEA.

God knows about Italy

 

[magneze]

I don't know what that is, I'm afraid.

The ironic thing here is the Remainer sneering about promises on the side of a bus which are supposed to have tricked those stupid enough to fall for them into voting Leave, because the Remainers themselves apparently can't see anything beyond that sort of crude economic reasoning.

It's a discount voucher website dressed up as something more sophisticated.

 

[kabbes]

knock out some positives then, challenge the OP

I reject the premise. The OP wants to know specifically things that he personally values that have already changed within one quarter of one year. Why is that the criterion by which this long term project is judged? There are many ways in which not being in the EU may be of value to people, but you have first to get into their context, their world in order to understand these. Stamping your feet instead whilst demanding “that’s not good enough! Tell me something else!” is just going to make people disengage with you.

If you really insist on something that fits with the middle-class neoliberal conceptualisation of “benefit”, though, at least understand the landscape of where such a benefit might come from. For example, here is an in-depth paper examining how leaving the EU presents opportunities for better land management in the U.K:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/wat2.1479

Abstract
Recent environmental policy bills outlined by the UK government in the wake of Brexit highlight an intention by the government to take a more holistic approach to land and water management. While previous legislation has taken a siloed approach to landscape management, often focusing on point source pollutions, the Agriculture and Environment Bills present the opportunity for effective protection of the environment while providing wider environmental benefits such as reduced flood risk, increased biodiversity and provision of cultural services. We outline how and why previous European Union legislation has failed to deliver the intended environmental improvements relating to agricultural land management in the UK. We highlight how the adoption of integrated catchment management and proposed “payment‐for‐outcome” schemes at a large scale could be used to push the United Kingdom into the forefront of sustainable farming, land management and championing environmental benefits to society

 

[bimble]

The idea that national self determination is obviously better than being subject to the rules of the bloc, that only an idiot wouldnt see it, those posts just look mad to me. People are saying this like its a simple truth but it’s not is it, cos otherwise the whole eu thing wouldn’t exist and wouldn’t have kept growing.

People voluntarily choose to enter all kinds of relationships that make them less free, they join weird clubs with rules, some people even get married ffs, because they reckon the less freedom is worth it for what they get in its place.

 

[kebabking]

The idea that national self determination is obviously better than being subject to the rules of the bloc, that only an idiot wouldnt see it, those posts just look mad to me. People are saying this like its a simple truth but it’s not is it, cos otherwise the whole eu thing wouldn’t exist and wouldn’t have kept growing.

People voluntarily choose to enter all kinds of relationships that make them less free, they join weird clubs with rules, some people even get married ffs, because they reckon the less freedom is worth it for what they get in its place.

And they voluntarily leave such clubs, organisations and relationships when they no longer wish to be part of them.

Are you saying that divorce is illogical, and therefore shouldn't happen?

 

[bimble]

And they voluntarily leave such clubs, organisations and relationships when they no longer wish to be part of them.

Are you saying that divorce is illogical, and therefore shouldn't happen?

No not at all, just the idea that it’s obviously a no brainer of a great thing to have more self determination & freedom, is wrong. Else people would never marry , or join the EU in the first place. I’d never get married myself, survivors have my sympathy.

 

[mojo pixy]

Do you mean that once a decision on a particular relationship has been made, it should be stuck to for ever regardless of what might change?

 

[Spymaster]

No not at all, just the idea that it’s obviously a no brainer of a great thing to have more self determination & freedom, is wrong. Else people would never marry , or join the EU in the first place. I’d never get married myself, survivors have my sympathy.

Whaaaaat?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No not at all, just the idea that it’s obviously a no brainer of a great thing to have more self determination & freedom, is wrong. Else people would never marry , or join the EU in the first place. I’d never get married myself, survivors have my sympathy.

I don't even understand what 'freedom' means really at a national level. Can someone name me a freedom that exists now that didn't two months ago?

Maybe some good can come out of leaving the CAP, if that doesn't get wrecked by shit trade deals, that is.

But I doubt that's really the kind of thing most people mean by it.

 

[Ax^]

blackist blue passports you cannot use because of covid it appears

And FReeedom of course

 

[bimble]

Whaaaaat?

You lot are going on like national self determination is an obvious benefit, a Good Thing. It’s not that simple, is all. Unless you think all the other countries, who apply to join & choose to stay, just haven’t realised their folly.

 

[kabbes]

You lot are going on like national self determination is an obvious benefit, a Good Thing. It’s not that simple, is all. Unless you think all the others, who choose to join & stay, just haven’t realised their folly.

It’s a good thing to those for whom it is important though, isn’t it? People who maybe have different priorities to you?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It’s a good thing to those for whom it is important though, isn’t it? People who maybe have different priorities to you?

Like nationalist types?

 

[kebabking]

No not at all, just the idea that it’s obviously a no brainer of a great thing to have more self determination & freedom, is wrong. Else people would never marry , or join the EU in the first place. I’d never get married myself, survivors have my sympathy.

Freedom isn't just freedom to, it's freedom from.

one of the most frequest complaints about the EU is that it's nature - from the EEC days - has fundamentally changed, which it undoubtedly has. This is akin to marrying someone who is 'a match', and then 20 years later you've just grown apart from - you don't want the same things, like the same things, and indeed find the other party irritating.

Is that allowed?

 

[kabbes]

Like nationalist types?

Could be. Do such people not count in the list of people that feel they have obtained benefits from Brexit?

 

[not-bono-ever]

fuck it. not getting dragged into this.

 

[bimble]

It’s a good thing to those for whom it is important though, isn’t it? People who maybe have different priorities to you?

Sure. I like the idea of it too, in the abstract. Am just a big pessimist. I’m scared of silly last century stuff like wars.

 

[Artaxerxes]

You lot are going on like national self determination is an obvious benefit, a Good Thing. It’s not that simple, is all. Unless you think all the other countries, who apply to join & choose to stay, just haven’t realised their folly.

It's also a question of "how much do we actually have" which given we live in an ever more globalised world tied into a billion treaties signed behind closed doors and we're ruled by the whim of whichever wankers are in Westminster with no end of that particular oligarchy crumbling...

 

[kabbes]

This thread has proceeded exactly as predicted in terms of people who don’t actually want to hear answers demanding answers.
“Tell me what the benefits are.”
“These are the benefits for me.”
“THOSE BENEFITS AREN’T GOOD ENOUGH AND I DON’T THINK THEY BENEFIT ME ANYWAY TELL ME MORE BENEFITS”

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Kurt Vonnegut described himself as 'a man without a country' near the end if his life under Bush's America. I feel like a bit like that atm.