The Attack On Working Tax Credits: Implentation & Propaganda.

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Remember how the fuckwit press ran around for so many years saying that he really cared about the poor because he once went to Easterhouse and spoke to some poor people for a couple of hours...no fucking evidence, just a photo op and raw gullibility.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Astonishing really. Anyone might think that years of widespread,concerted, relenteless and mendacious propaganda lies against benefits claimants might have an effect on voter perceptions.

Certainly, a largely right-wing press doesn't help, but, there has been an inexplicable 'turkeys voting for Christmas' element in the last election.

 

[DotCommunist]

Certainly, a largely right-wing press doesn't help, but, there has been an inexplicable 'turkeys voting for Christmas' element in the last election.

labour offered no alternative but a me-too to tory proposals. Despite the papers attempting to paint millipede as the second coming of vladmir illich, it was piss weak stuff and so it goes

 

[Blagsta]

No, because to quote only those seven words as if they were a complete sentence, which they are not, is at best, lazy, at worst, dishonest.

Quoting the whole thing makes what difference? The meaning is clear.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Quoting the whole thing makes what difference? The meaning is clear.

You obviously have not read the complete paragraph of the interview, never mind the whole interview.

 

[Sasaferrato]

labour offered no alternative but a me-too to tory proposals. Despite the papers attempting to paint millipede as the second coming of vladmir illich, it was piss weak stuff and so it goes

Labour certainly didn't engender trust during their last period of government, lest we forget who forged the nails for the current crucifixion. Labour is tainted by Iraq and Afghanistan, and the fact that two of then front runners for the leadership, were part of that government doesn't hold out much hope for the future.

Depressing. Absolutely fucking depressing.

 

[Jackobi]

60.4% of British families receive a state benefit of one sort or another.

Where did you get this figure from?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Where did you get this figure from?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths

 

[DotCommunist]

Where did you get this figure from?

most all adults working at min or just above wage will require working tax credits, single mums or dads working part time certainly will and then theres housing benefit as well. The trick of right wing papers and our own government is to lump that and pensions all into one and point and go- look at tgat fucker! because they are evil shits who want us all back to the 19th entury

 

[DotCommunist]

they pulled a similar stat trick when they made the attack on pub sec pensions. They included \mp's absolutely gold plated and generous beyond words pensions in the over all figure thus skewing the average.

 

[Sasaferrato]

most all adults working at min or just above wage will require working tax credits, single mums or dads working part time certainly will and then theres housing benefit as well. The trick of right wing papers and our own government is to lump that and pensions all into one and point and go- look at tgat fucker! because they are evil shits who want us all back to the 19th entury

Child Benefit, until recently a universal benefit (well, still is but now taxed), will have been the biggest contributor to the overall %age.

 

[Sasaferrato]

they pulled a similar stat trick when they made the attack on pub sec pensions. They included \mp's absolutely gold plated and generous beyond words pensions in the over all figure thus skewing the average.

I doubt the 650 pensions skewed the average that much. The public sector is numbered in millions. The NHS alone employs 1.3m people.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Slight detour, though I'm more with dotcommunist about the rigging of stats by propagandameisters, we should be really wary of the term "gold plated" in reference to pensions. It is a term that has risen out of a need to sneer mostly at public service workers, also the hitherto traditional final-salary based pension. such pensions were the results of legal contracts, not the kind of dinosaur leftist scam that the scum press now try to pretend. Teachers (for example) don't have "gold plated pensions" there is no gold and no plating. They have pensions.

Pensions are pretty dubious anyway. You give loads of money to capitalists for decades on end. then one day you are meant to feel grateful if you start to get some of it back. It's partly because pensions are such a rip off that the middle class started to use property as a means of securing relative wealth in later age. We can see how that ended up.

 

[zxspectrum]

No. Under the CAP the farm is eligible for the subsidy, end of. I could understand your outrage if iBS was getting something others weren't, but he isn't. There is absolutely no connection between a family farm, and him being a politician.

Noone's forcing him to take the money.

He's forcibly taking money from other people.

The guy is pure scum.

 

[superfly101]

Pensions is covered by NI take!

Somebody correct me here;
1, Ni is ring fenced for mainly pensions
2, there's a little NHS budget from it... for what I don't know
3, 8 billion or 2 months surplus was considered prudent
4 at present there is a 30 billion surplus

Pensions ?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Remember how the fuckwit press ran around for so many years saying that he really cared about the poor because he once went to Easterhouse and spoke to some poor people for a couple of hours...no fucking evidence, just a photo op and raw gullibility.

This is what pisses me off about you - you've got the fact-checking ability of a locked filing cabinet.
Dunked-in Shit did spend time in Easterhouse. he visited a project run by Bob Holman, and impressed Holman (not an easy guy to gip - he's seen every trick in the book) with his concern.

What you're missing is that Dunked-in Shit 2002-2010 lacked something Dunked-in Shit 2010-onward has: Power. Shit's concern for the poor was probably entirely real, and probably remained so while being able to actually do anything was just an abstract. With power, though, comes decisions to be made - do you follow your heart or your head? He chose the wrong route for a religious believer, and followed his head.

Castigate him for being a murderous ideologue whose politics have killed hundreds at the least, but don't invent shit, FFS. There's enough real crimes he's done that his G-d is going to take a shit on him at the Pearly Gates before kicking him downstairs, or that a Peoples' Tribunal could strangle him on his own intestines for.

 

[Blagsta]

You obviously have not read the complete paragraph of the interview, never mind the whole interview.

I have. Which is why I know what it means.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Slight detour, though I'm more with dotcommunist about the rigging of stats by propagandameisters, we should be really wary of the term "gold plated" in reference to pensions. It is a term that has risen out of a need to sneer mostly at public service workers, also the hitherto traditional final-salary based pension. such pensions were the results of legal contracts, not the kind of dinosaur leftist scam that the scum press now try to pretend. Teachers (for example) don't have "gold plated pensions" there is no gold and no plating. They have pensions.

Pensions are pretty dubious anyway. You give loads of money to capitalists for decades on end. then one day you are meant to feel grateful if you start to get some of it back. It's partly because pensions are such a rip off that the middle class started to use property as a means of securing relative wealth in later age. We can see how that ended up.

Which did not stop the last Labour government from reneging, and imposing new arrangements, whilst PCS wrung its hands, and told us there was nothing they could do.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I have. Which is why I know what it means.

Fair enough, without Googling, in which magazine was it published?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Noone's forcing him to take the money.

He's forcibly taking money from other people.

The guy is pure scum.

 

[zxspectrum]

In what way am I wrong?

 

[DotCommunist]

It is a term that has risen out of a need to sneer mostly at public service workers

yeah I'll agree here- the point of calling mps pensions gold plated though is cos they are. Other peoples pension pots are subject to sudden raids and yet they'd never touvh their own.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Pensions is covered by NI take!

Somebody correct me here;
1, Ni is ring fenced for mainly pensions
2, there's a little NHS budget from it... for what I don't know
3, 8 billion or 2 months surplus was considered prudent
4 at present there is a 30 billion surplus

Pensions ?

IIRC, pensions, including the old-age pension, are not covered by the NI take, or anything like it. The old age pension alone costs £63Bn a year or so, total receipts last year for capital gains, income tax and NIC taken together was £54Bn.

 

[Sasaferrato]

In what way am I wrong?

So, every farmer in the country is scum? If IDS was in receipt of CB, then everyone not on the breadline who takes CB is scum...

 

[zxspectrum]

So, every farmer in the country is scum?

Are you serious?
Where did I say that, and how does this answer my question?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Are you serious?
Where did I say that, and how does this answer my question?

Go away, before I say something I may regret. Conflating chalk and cheese, which is what you are doing is not an argument.

 

[toggle]

Noone's forcing him to take the money.

He's forcibly taking money from other people.

The guy is pure scum.

handouts are fine as long as the redistribution is in the right direction.

 

[zxspectrum]

Go away, before I say something I may regret. Conflating chalk and cheese, which is what you are doing is not an argument.

I have no intention of going away nor am I responsible for what you post, stop acting like a child.

 

[zxspectrum]

handouts are fine as long as the redistribution is in the right direction.

Do you think Iain Duncan Smith or the family of his wife need a farming subsidy? Are they even farmers?

 

[superfly101]

IIRC, pensions, including the old-age pension, are not covered by the NI take, or anything like it. The old age pension alone costs £63Bn a year or so, total receipts last year for capital gains, income tax and NIC taken together was £54Bn.

Really!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance