The 7/7 Report

[ZAMB]

And if you try reading the thread you'll see ample reason for getting frustrated. Azrael, for example, made a load of spectacularly stupid claims about the exercises that took place on 7/7 and has since refused to answer any of the questions relating to his claims.

I did read the whole thread - it made me want to put my head through the monitor just to try to escape from the claim, counterclaim, insult, counterinsult monotony.
The really important issue - to me, possibly the only important issue - is one that unfortunately all of us are unequipped to answer - Why, given our govt.'s known propensity for lying, can they not do the decent thing for once and hold a public, independent enquiry, given that so many people seem to need one to be able to move on?
Since Blair knew beforehand that the public were against the war in Iraq, I think he owes it to us to hold a decent enquiry into the consequences of that war to our citizens.
Unfortunately, as a rule, I find it best to expect little or nothing from our govt. - we are less likely to be disappointed that way.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Well we`d have actual CCTV footage if the CCTV on the 30 Bus hadn`t been tampered with.

Evidence please.

 

[editor]

Since Blair knew beforehand that the public were against the war in Iraq, I think he owes it to us to hold a decent enquiry into the consequences of that war to our citizens.

Sure, but don't you think that stupid little conspiraloons bleating on about irrelevant shite like plastic bags, rain puddles, reflections and car sizes just get in the way of any attempt to call the government to account?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Sure, but don't you think that stupid little conspiraloons bleating on about irrelevant shite like plastic bags, rain puddles, reflections and car sizes just get in the way of any attempt to call the government to account?

Agreed.

The missiles of public enquiry should be aimed at the real targets not at the radar disruptor chaff that the consipraloons put out.

 

[Azrael23]

I`d hardly call the Saxa-Coburg-Gothes radar disruptor chaff.

We have valid questions. Have some respect.

 

[editor]

We have valid questions. Have some respect.

My questions to you concerning your bold claims about the paper exercises on 7/7 were very valid.

Why are you still trying to wriggle out of answering them?

Oh, and lookig forward to seeing your evidence for the 'tampered' CCTV bus footage!

 

[jæd]

I`d hardly call the Saxa-Coburg-Gothes radar disruptor chaff.

We have valid questions. Have some respect.

Show us the evidence. Then you'll have some respect. Until then you're unwanted fruitloop consiparloon-spuds of highest order...!

 

[fela fan]

Sure, but don't you think that stupid little conspiraloons bleating on about irrelevant shite like plastic bags, rain puddles, reflections and car sizes just get in the way of any attempt to call the government to account?

You're not suggesting a pseudonym on some forum website will affect the decision process by the government over whether to hold an enquiry?

 

[jæd]

You're not suggesting a pseudonym on some forum website will affect the decision process by the government over whether to hold an enquiry?

Depends if the "pseudonym on some forum" goes and disrupts a book launch that advocates a public inquiry...

 

[fela fan]

Depends if the "pseudonym on some forum" goes and disrupts a book launch that advocates a public inquiry...

Okay, fair reply, but still, one member (or even a few) of the public is gonna influence government policy?

Nah, it's the media that have the most influence on government policy, so are they to be condemned for their lack of pressure to bring a public enquiry about?

I don't know, hence my question!

 

[editor]

You're not suggesting a pseudonym on some forum website will affect the decision process by the government over whether to hold an enquiry?

I'm suggesting that insensitive cunts invading public meetings of 7/7 survivors asking for an enquiry and trying to intimidate their families isn't going to help, neither is deluded idiots trying to promote their ludicrous theories in the press.

I'd imagine that if normal folks went to a meeting to support calls for an enquiry came across a bunch of barking wingnuts going on about puddles, plastic bags and reflections, they'd not bother going back either.

And if the highest profile campaign group turns out to be morons like the '7/7 truth seekers' (or whatever they're called), I could imagine them putting off people by the shedload.

 

[ZAMB]

Agreed.

The missiles of public enquiry should be aimed at the real targets not at the radar disruptor chaff that the consipraloons put out.

Well, wouldn't all the effort that's gone into the 20+ pages of this thread have been put to better use writing to Westminster, holding protests, and calling the govt. to account??

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I`d hardly call the Saxa-Coburg-Gothes radar disruptor chaff..

WTF are you on about? I'm no fan of the 'Germans' but in the context of 7/07 what is that got to do with the price of fish?

We have valid questions. Have some respect.

There is a difference between asking measured reasonalble questions and outright lizardry.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Well, wouldn't all the effort that's gone into the 20+ pages of this thread have been put to better use writing to Westminster, holding protests, and calling the govt. to account??

I agree but it is the lizard worshippers who are diving on here with the evidence free stuff and making assertions and clogging u p the thhread.

 

[Azrael23]

Show us the evidence. Then you'll have some respect. Until then you're unwanted fruitloop consiparloon-spuds of highest order...!

Why though? Why do you find scenarios we see on repeat throughout history so hard to believe?

My points on 7/7 are,

Prior knowledge is evident in the warnings to certain individuals like Benji the slimeball. Not to mention the fact that for once david davis may be onto something, oh and michael meachers revelations on the war on terror.

Haroon Aswat was named as the supplier of the bombs, mastermind, call it what you will....yet when it was found that he was a british intelligence asset with a history of being helped to escape justice in the US and Zambia by MI6, his name disappeared from public discourse.

The point I raised about the number 30 bus is that it was the only bus rerouted after the events in the underground transpired, its CCTV was not operational even though its inspected 2-3 times a week as they get a nice juicy payment for keeping it operational (fair enough). It then transpires some random technicians spent 20 hrs on the bus before the attack. So these people who the depot had never seen before, spent 20 hrs on the bus before the attack supposedly carrying out the regular inspection of the CCTV....which then turns out not to be working on the day. Surely that should be investigated!

Just like 9/11 we have economic prior knowledge, this time in the form of short-selling of the pound in the run up to the attack.

Just like 9/11 we have a drill going on as the attack takes place. Don`t give me any "but he said it was on paper" lark...please...how does a drill work...on paper? It doesn`t, the scenario is on paper, the people in the control rooms, on the radios they aren`t on paper are they? There were 1000 employees involved. Well on paper anyway...

We have the suspicious nature of the Du Menezes shooting. The reason I`m suspicious (not sure of course) that it could tie into 7/7 is because he was an electrician, was he sent to check out the "power surge", did he see something he shouldn`t of? I know this particular point is based on conjecture but "the mark of an educated mind is to entertain an idea without accepting it", don`t be afraid of conjecture!

The witness accounts saying the explosions came from below the floor. One witness explicitly said there was no guy with a rucksack in the carriage he was sitting, the explosion came from beneath the floor, there was no one sitting there. Other witnesses on two of the three trains say the same thing. That makes me think.

Its also the question of who stands to gain from these attacks? Its only Blair and the police state smarm he`s somehow conjured.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think there are a lot of websites/individuals that give those who question official orthodoxy a bad name. Thankfully I have no connection to any of them. The July 7th truth campaign is free of any 'conspiracy' theories, it just calls for truth and justice and examines the evidence. I think we should all be grateful than someone bothers, whether you agree with the campaign or not. After all we only want to know the truth, whatever that may turn out to be.

Is that so? Didn't you defend the sites of Rense and Jones earlier in the thread?

You have a funny way of pursuing the truth and those with whom your thoughts and ideas are at variance with, are treated to the usual nonsense that they "don't want to know the truth". I get the feeling that if the truth came along, none of you would accept it because it doesn't square with what you perceive to be the truth....so what's the point in talking you lot? None.

 

[editor]

It then transpires some random technicians spent 20 hrs on the bus before the attack. So these people who the depot had never seen before, spent 20 hrs on the bus before the attack supposedly carrying out the regular inspection of the CCTV....which then turns out not to be working on the day. Surely that should be investigated!

That doesn't prove that the CCTV footage was 'tampered'. That was the claim you made. Can you back this up with hard evidence please or were you lying?

We have the suspicious nature of the Du Menezes shooting. The reason I`m suspicious (not sure of course) that it could tie into 7/7 is because he was an electrician, was he sent to check out the "power surge", did he see something he shouldn`t of

For fuck's sake, I've had enough of this clueless bullshit.

Have you any evidence at all - and I mean anything - to support this latest piece of idiotic, fact-free fruitloopery?
Did Du Menezes work for LT? Has he ever worked for LT? Was he on duty that day? Have you any fucking idea at all?

And then you can answer my questions. I've asked about ten times now. If you keep on refusing to answer them I can only assume you're trolling. Your last post certainly suggests you are.

 

[Azrael23]

I think alex jones sites are good resources. Its a good place to find important articles from mainstream media. I prefer Paul Watsons site at propagandamatrix.com

People like alex jones and jeff rense are just expressing what they believe, they are an example to be followed in that sense.

BTW editor, i`ve made it perfectly clear what I think.

As far as Du Menezes is concerned you need to remember he was marked for death. He was wearing a denim jacket, he had no bag, how can you hide a bomb belt under a denim jacket? Yes it was a denim jacket because not only do witnesses describe it but the manager of where he worked remarked that was his only jacket! He was an SWP person as well. Thought you guys would sympathise when he gets assassinated!

Read this; http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/25/24958/6574

 

[nino_savatte]

Alex Jones' site is as believable as Fox News...it ain't. Accept it and move on, please.

 

[Azrael23]

But your not supposed to just use it to see "what alex jones said"...

Thats not important, whats important is some of the sources you can find on there. Your so black and white orientated. Snap out of it.

 

[jæd]

But your not supposed to just use it to see "what alex jones said"...

Thats not important, whats important is some of the sources you can find on there. Your so black and white orientated. Snap out of it.

Yah... Black and white as in "we want substansiated, indisputable evidence"...

 

[editor]

BTW editor, i`ve made it perfectly clear what I think.

Don't lie. You haven't answered any of my points concerning your wild claims about the (paper) exercises that took please on 7/7. Will you answer them now, please because I'm losing patience with your hit and run bullshit.

Now, about the proof for the 'tampered' CCTV tapes on the bus. Where's that please?

And where's your proof that de Menezes worked for LT that morning please?

He was an SWP person as well. Thought you guys would sympathise when he gets assassinated!

So you are trolling, yes?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Just like 9/11 we have a drill going on as the attack takes place. Don`t give me any "but he said it was on paper" lark...please...how does a drill work...on paper? It doesn`t, the scenario is on paper, the people in the control rooms, on the radios they aren`t on paper are they? There were 1000 employees involved. Well on paper anyway...

From this we can see that you've never heard of a PENIS before. PENIS: Pointless Excersise Not Involving Soldiers (aka TEWT Training Excersise Without Troops)

It's a training tool for officers and probably NCOs. The DS (directing staff) give you the situation, ie you're patroling up this street and then someone starts shooting at you from X, you must respond and then assualt the position. Go and plan your response. The trainees then go off, formulate a plan and prepare a brief, which they then give to the DS and other trainees.

As such you can have a TEWT involving 30 people (a platoon of infantry + mortar fire controllers) without any of the infantry there.

In this situation the managers would have been taken into a room, been given a brief on what has happened and then be told to formulate a response. Before hand they will have been given a format of how to work through this process (probably very similar to the seven question format the army uses) and then the way they use it will be observed by the crisis management team who will then critique the process afterwards. Ie. You didn't think about doing this, or that, you waited too long to contact the police...

So If this was TFL (for example) none of the bus drivers would have known there was an excersise, none of the emergency services would have known, none of the middle management would have known (other than to say that mister X and Ms Y are busy going through a training cycle at the moment). In short the world would have continued oblivious while the TEWT occurs. As it does more or less every single day in london as the management in different companies go through similar processes.

So, you now know what a PENIS is, please don't waste time obsessing about this particular one here.

 

[nino_savatte]

But your not supposed to just use it to see "what alex jones said"...

Thats not important, whats important is some of the sources you can find on there. Your so black and white orientated. Snap out of it.

That isn't much of a defence but then, what more can one expect?

How's life in the Bermuda Triangle these days?

 

[laptop]

Thanks for introducing Azrael23 to the concept PENIS

So If this was TFL (for example)

Just in case someone runs with this, it wasn't. It was an unnamed private company. And we established at the time that such "exercises" take place daily. There may well have been others on the same day in London.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Just in case someone runs with this, it wasn't. It was an unnamed private company. And we established at the time that such "exercises" take place daily. There may well have been others on the same day in London.

Yeah poor example.

 

[Azrael23]

Yes, but an exercise simulating an event that just happened to transpire that day?

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes, but an exercise simulating an event that just happened to transpire that day?

Coincidences do happen...in fact, they happen all the time. The ancients would have read this a "sign". It seems some folk have yet to move beyond the confines of the ancient mind.

 

[editor]

Yes, but an exercise simulating an event that just happened to transpire that day?

Yes. There's probably exercises taking place somewhere in London today too.

Now will you answer my fucking questions and produce some proof of this 'tampered' CCTV tape please?

Oh, and don't forget to offer proof that de Menezes worked for LT.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Yes, but an exercise simulating an event that just happened to transpire that day?

Ok, two parts to that:

1) The event they were preparing for was similar to the one that happened:
Yes, but they were also simulating a larger attack involving mainline trains. Since train/tube attacks are both so obvious and so effective they are an obvious target, both for the four bombers and for the emergency services and other companies. So the situation was similar, but not identical and both were the most likely format for an attack to take place.

2) These excersises happen all the time:
There have to be hundreds of companies that run similar training processes for thier staff, if there were only 100 or so who have similar processes then there are good odds that at least one of them will be having a training excersise on the same day.

So, it's not all that unlikely. We've already concluded that the effect will not have been all that great from the PENIS part