The 7/7 Report

[Bernie Gunther]

<snip> Far more effective for the security service to get people arguing about the minuatae of video stills than where blame really should lie for getting us in to this mess in the first place.<snip>

Sadly, I think there is no need at all for the security services to pay people to hang around on bulletin boards arguing about video stills.

Human nature does all (or almost all) that's necessary, with maybe a drop of disinformation here or there to keep it going.

Whenever these kind of discussions come up I am strongly reminded of the early days of the US stealth bomber programme. The aircraft was developed in secret and test flown near Roswell New Mexico, from the base on which the legendary Area 51 was sited and at around the same time as all the alien autopsy stories started circulating in the press.

Guess what happened to all the eye-witness stories of funny-looking aircraft that didn't show up on radar?

 

[Prole]

To quote Alan Sugar - "you're a bleedin' nutter". Do you really think that if someone was going to fake a photo on Photoshop that they wouldn't make a good job of it? Are you insane?

If indeed it were fake your'e right, they did make a bad job of it. A rush job perhaps?

 

[editor]

The best solution to this is to create a separate forum for the CT stuff.

No, the best solution for conspiracy-obsessed individuals who want to keep on repeatedly posting up fact free pronouncements from a position of supreme unresearched ignorance is to start up their own boards.

I'll be fucked if I'm going to invite fruitloops to abuse the hard-earned popularity of this site.

 

[editor]

Can 'editor' not allow that wanting to know facts to which the public are entitled is the right of the public??

'Editor' has no problem with people asking for a full enquiry.

But 'editor' has a big problem with obsessed conspiraloons repeatedly posting up page after page of the same tastleless, clueless, fact-free speculation, "the plastic bag!", "the puddles!", "the bombers didn't exist!", "the reflections!", "the trousers!", "it's been Photoshopped!" etc etc zzzzzzzz

 

[Prole]

Quite.


It makes one wonder whether or not the conspiraloons who have shown up so forcefully on this site (and probably on other similar sites as well) are not paid employees or agents of Thames House. After all they do a very good job of obfusticating debate about the culpability of Blair etc. Far more effective for the security service to get people arguing about the minuatae of video stills than where blame really should lie for getting us in to this mess in the first place.

So Prole what are you Box or Branch?

Someone who believes in truth and justice.
My reasons for researching are quite straightforward. I had questions then, questions which still have not been answered.

 

[editor]

As I recall from my visits to Luton station, there are two different surfaces of tarmac at the station entrance (you can see the 1st three men on one surface, then Tanweer, behind, on another, darker tarmac). So perhaps they had different water-retention properties - different porosity or some such - which would cause puddles to remain on one but not the other?

Exactly.

Have you been to the station, Jazzz? How about you, Prole?

 

[Prole]

'Editor' has no problem with people asking for a full enquiry.

But 'editor' has a big problem with obsessed conspiraloons repeatedly posting up page after page of the same tastleless, clueless, fact-free speculation, "the plastic bag!", "the puddles!", "the bombers didn't exist!", "the reflections!", "the trousers!"

Just questions. Only the truth stands up to rigorous investigation as I keep saying.

 

[ZAMB]

No, the best solution for conspiracy-obsessed individuals who want to keep on repeatedly posting up fact free pronouncements from a position of supreme unresearched ignorance is to start up their own boards.

I'll be fucked if I'm going to invite fruitloops to abuse the hard-earned popularity of this site.

Maybe if you didn't keep insulting them [conspiraloons, fruitloops etc.] they wouldn't feel the need to keep trying to get across the same points. Just a suggestion, of course.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Hey Prole / Jazzz

I've got a new hat for you..

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Someone who believes in truth and justice.
My reasons for researching are quite straightforward. I had questions then, questions which still have not been answered.

You havn't answered my question either. You seem so interested in this subject and have turned up at such a crucial time Are you Box or Branch?

 

[editor]

Someone who believes in truth and justice.
My reasons for researching are quite straightforward. I had questions then, questions which still have not been answered.

Actually, you're a hypocrite who's already been caught out lying. You even tried to deny your own words here!

Moroever, you've made wild conspiracy claims from a position of total ignorance ("it's been Photoshopped!") and made a series of ridiculous, unresearched claims that prove that far from being a 'truth-seeker' your mind and your agenda is firmly made up in advance.

You're not interested in justice - you're just pursuing your obsessional need to find a conspiracy, even when you haven't a single shred of evidence to support your bonkers ideas.

And anyone who tries to insist that there's something deeply suspicious about someone carrying a plastic bag needs their head examined, if you ask me.

Still, you've managed to plug your own boards here now. Perhaps you'll take your ignorance, your blinkered ideas, your fruitloop-obsessed claims and your idiotic need to post up inconsequential bullshit there. Permanently, I hope.

 

[jæd]

You havn't answered my question either. You seem so interested in this subject and have turned up at such a crucial time Are you Box or Branch?

They never will. They're trolling conspiraloons. I'm wondering why they break posting faq yet are still aloowed to post...

 

[editor]

Maybe if you didn't keep insulting them [conspiraloons, fruitloops etc.] they wouldn't feel the need to keep trying to get across the same points. Just a suggestion, of course.

I find it insulting when people use these boards to post up laughable unresearched conspiraloons claims - and then try to deny their own words - or are involved in nasty campaign groups who harass the survivors of 7/7.

And if you try reading the thread you'll see ample reason for getting frustrated. Azrael, for example, made a load of spectacularly stupid claims about the exercises that took place on 7/7 and has since refused to answer any of the questions relating to his claims.

If someone's just using these boards to post up their fruitloop fantasies in a one-way transmission, then they can't complain if people get annoyed.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

And anyone who tries to insist that there's something deeply suspicious about someone carrying a plastic bag needs their head examined, if you ask me.

.

Of course there is nothing suspicious about a plastic bag. I've been carrying my plastic bags (sometimes full of wires and cables) though underground stations for ages and no body has stopped me. Or is it because is is a minger?

'keyboardjockey perveyor of non suspicious bio degradable carrier bags since 1980'

 

[jæd]

Still, you've managed to plug your own boards here now. Perhaps you'll take your ignorance, your blinkered ideas, your fruitloop-obsessed claims and your idiotic need to post up inconsequential bullshit there. Permanently, I hope.

Isn't promoting rival boards akin to spamming these ones...? Isn't that a possible reason for banning this fruityloopy...?

Oh, and the hatted onces boards are (a) empty as a nuns crotch and (b) inaccurate.

They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water,
it will leap out right away to escape the danger.

But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant,
and then you gradually heat the kettle until it starts boiling,
the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.

The legend is entirely incorrect! The 'critical thermal maxima' of many species of frogs have been determined by several investigators. In this procedure, the water in which a frog is submerged is heated gradually at about 2 degrees Fahrenheit per minute. As the temperature of the water is gradually increased, the frog will eventually become more and more active in attempts to escape the heated water. If the container size and opening allow the frog to jump out, it will do so.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.htm

With such basic facts being misportrayed, how can we believe the complex theories presented are true...?

 

[scalyboy]

If indeed it were fake your'e right, they did make a bad job of it. A rush job perhaps?

But if the 4 figures were crudely superimposed onto the background, isn't the added detail of their reflections in the glass/perspex quite a sophisticated one, and not what one might expect from a rush job?

 

[fela fan]

Thirty years of dealing with the IRA, when they knew more or less exactly who the main players were and were still unable to stop them much of the time is probably the best available guide to how capable the state security agencies are likely to be in dealing with the consequences of Blair's illegal war on Iraq.

Bernie, that's conjecture, and although terrorism and the attempt to stop it is the common theme between your two comparisons, they are different contexts, in different times (post-911, twat, heightened security), and with different technology to aid the intelligence services.

Both 911 and this 7/7 have parallels, and both times government agencies were following the bombers, and both times they didn't manage to foil the attacks, despite more than enough intelligence.

I think that is one of the major questions to be pursued. If nothing else to get the incompetents out of their jobs.

 

[Prole]

Hey Prole / Jazzz

I've got a new hat for you..

Does it come in any other colours?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Does it come in any other colours?

Tinfoil

 

[Prole]

You havn't answered my question either. You seem so interested in this subject and have turned up at such a crucial time Are you Box or Branch?

Strictly roots

 

[fela fan]

I really can't understand all this photoshopping stuff. That will get no-one anywhere.

What about the fundamental questions being posed, and then requiring the relevant personnel in the relevant agencies to provide us with the answers. All the while kept in the news by the press.

Responsibilities are being shirked from blair downwards, and no-one's being called to task. What is it in our modern life that allows this to happen?

 

[Prole]

'Editor' has no problem with people asking for a full enquiry.

But 'editor' has a big problem with obsessed conspiraloons repeatedly posting up page after page of the same tastleless, clueless, fact-free speculation, "the plastic bag!", "the puddles!", "the bombers didn't exist!", "the reflections!", "the trousers!", "it's been Photoshopped!" etc etc zzzzzzzz

Or asking for the release of the evidence? Images from Luton and KX in the same way that we have been shown them from the 28/6 and 21/7.

Now wouldn't that shut up those who question the official version? Us ordinary (not expert not qualified) members of the public who question the one piece of evidence that is in the public domain that purports to show these 4 young men, miles outside London, on that day. Or is that one iconic image all we need as a people to prove they are guilty?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Bernie, that's conjecture, and although terrorism and the attempt to stop it is the common theme between your two comparisons, they are different contexts, in different times (post-911, twat, heightened security), and with different technology to aid the intelligence services.

Both 911 and this 7/7 have parallels, and both times government agencies were following the bombers, and both times they didn't manage to foil the attacks, despite more than enough intelligence.

I think that is one of the major questions to be pursued. If nothing else to get the incompetents out of their jobs.

I think the comparison has real relevance. For a start, many of the people involved are going to be recycled spooks from Northern Ireland, who were in surplus after the Good Friday agreement. That means they are going to be bringing at least some of the same methods and mindsets. There are differences to be sure, the whole 'War on Terror' thing is a different context, the IRA was a fairly well-defined group with a few fairly well defined splinter cells, whereas what we're apparently facing thanks to Blair more like 'open source terrorism.'

What I think that means is that the state security types are even less likely to be able to reliably prevent self-starting suicide bombers from doing their thing, but in trying and especially in doing so in the context of the repeal of our civil liberties and the introduction of 'big brother' measures, they are going to do all kinds of harm to our society, while still all too often failing.

The cock-ups and morally dubious stuff that happened during the 'dirty war' in Northern Ireland are probably the least we can expect this time around.

Responsibility for bringing about this entirely predictable situation lies very clearly with Blair and the cabal of senior spooks who helped tell all the lies and helped to drag us into this situation, where we are paying the price for an illegal war that was never in our interests.

 

[fela fan]

Responsibility for bringing about this entirely predictable situation lies very clearly with Blair and the cabal of senior spooks who helped tell all the lies and helped to drag us into this situation, where we are paying the price for an illegal war that was never in our interests.

I agree fully with this. But i'd like to know blair's reasons for getting involved in this illegal war. Obviously the answer has something to do with the US.

What i'm saying is that blair is responsible, but what influenced his actions?

As for the comparison, i'd not like to take you on on this bernie, i'll be getting out of my depth somewhat. Although i don't see how the two contexts can be considered the same. No two are, are they?

 

[editor]

Us ordinary (not expert not qualified) members of the public who question the one piece of evidence that is in the public domain that purports to show these 4 young men, miles outside London, on that day. Or is that one iconic image all we need as a people to prove they are guilty?

Thing is, you're "questioning" - or rather making emphatic statements of fact - about a supposed deception from a position of total ignorance, with a load of laughable guff about plastic bags and puddles thrown in for good measure.

And I think you'll find most "ordinary" members of the public would laugh at you and declare you a nutcase if you tried to convince them of the conspiratorial merits of the lack of a puddle on a site you've neither investigated, visited, photographed or made any effort at all to research in a meaningful, productive manner.

 

[Prole]

Thing is, you're "questioning" - or rather making emphatic statements of fact - about a supposed deception from a position of total ignorance, with a load of laughable guff about plastic bags and puddles thrown in for good measure.

And I think you'll find most "ordinary" members of the public would laugh at you and declare you a nutcase if you tried to convince them of the conspiratorial merits of the lack of a puddle on a site you've neither investigated, visited, photographed or made any effort at all to research in a meaningful, productive manner.

The Luton site has been visited and researched by members of the July 7th truth campaign though. (Which we are pleased to announce has been linked to by the MCB).
Why not suggest hiring a Nissan Micra and filling it with 5 large rucksacks, cooler boxes etc and seeing if it all fits? Add in 3 passengers, one over 6ft tall, oh and don't forget a spare pair of trousers. I don't think anyone has tried that yet.
Why is it anathema to you that the evidence as it stands is questioned?

 

[editor]

The Luton site has been visited and researched by members of the July 7th truth campaign though. (Which we are pleased to announce has been linked to by the MCB).
Why not suggest hiring a Nissan Micra and filling it with 5 large rucksacks, cooler boxes etc and seeing if it all fits? Add in 3 passengers, one over 6ft tall, oh and don't forget a spare pair of trousers. I don't think anyone has tried that yet.
Why is it anathema to you that the evidence as it stands is questioned?

FFS: so not only did they fail to get on the train - you're now insisting that they didn't travel down in the car too?
Based on what hard evidence, please?

So where are they please?

FYI: I've fitted far more stuff into far smaller cars so if this is the best 'evidence' you can produce you've lost all grip on reality.

Oh, and what were the findings of the <guffaw> 'truth campaign's' visit it Luton? Was that the one where they posted up a load of bullshit - no, downright lies - claiming it wasn't possible to reach the platform in time?

 

[Prole]

FFS: so not only did they fail to get on the train - you're now insisting that they didn't travel down in the car too?
Based on what hard evidence, please?

So where are they please?

FYI: I've fitted far more stuff into far smaller cars so if this is the best 'evidence' you can produce you've lost all grip on reality.

Oh, and what were the findings of the <guffaw> 'truth campaign's' visit it Luton? Was that the one where the posted up a load of bullshit - no, downright lies - claiming it wasn't possible to reach the platform in time?

So you'd contest to my grip on reality if I accepted the one image from Luton to catch a train that didn't run or arrive in time to board the underground trains? Without any further proof? That is what you would consider sane?

 

[jæd]

The Luton site has been visited and researched by members of the July 7th truth campaign though. (Which we are pleased to announce has been linked to by the MCB).
Why not suggest hiring a Nissan Micra and filling it with 5 large rucksacks, cooler boxes etc and seeing if it all fits? Add in 3 passengers, one over 6ft tall, oh and don't forget a spare pair of trousers. I don't think anyone has tried that yet.
Why is it anathema to you that the evidence as it stands is questioned?

Never been to University have you...?

 

[jæd]

So you'd contest to my grip on reality if I accepted the one image from Luton to catch a train that didn't run or arrive in time to board the underground trains? Without any further proof? That is what you would consider sane?

I think your sanity is questioned because you seem unable to grasp the simple idea of four poeple blowing themselves up, killing over 50 others and wounding hundred more.

This why everyone thinks you are prize fuckwit and should stop posting here. You've do nothing for your campaign but make you look like prize conspiraloon spud...