Teachers - "British values" and all that

[Argonia]

Eton, Harrow and Fettes.

Was Fettes were Blair went?

 

[maomao]

Was Fettes were Blair went?

Yes. I always call it Hogwarts (it's not far from my mum's house) because it's a very imposing old-fashioned building with spires and stuff.

 

[Edie]

Which is why uniform is so pointless.

I meant divisive in the sense of kids getting mugged for their tariners and stuff.

The school where I currently work has a very lax uniform policy and I've been very impressed by it so far. Lots of school t-shirts and sweatshirts etc. Kids in jogging pants. Then on Wednesday I got told that in September, when covid is 'gone', uniform rules will go 'back to normal' and teachers will be inspecting uniforms before allowing kids in the class. What a load of bollocks.

Oh I don’t disagree. Although I do wonder if it helps give kids a sense of identity and pride. Turning up every day in joggers and t shirts, where’s the self worth? It’s a competitive world out there and they need to be ready for it.

 

[killer b]

Do you know any children who take any pride in their school uniform?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Was Fettes were Blair went?

It was.

 

[chilango]

Eton, Harrow and Fettes.

I've done the research on this.

 

[maomao]

Do you know any children who take any pride in their school uniform?

It does happen. I went to a school without mandatory uniform (there was a special occasions one) and I had a mate who always wore his uniform anyway and wore it immaculately.

 

[rutabowa]

I am not sure it is very important whether kids wear school uniform or not. I def don't recall it preventing kids being bullied for not having much money. However I guess it removes one thing to think about when you are getting ready in the morning, so it might leave that bit of the brain a bit more free for learning ? It is just one tiny thing less to worry about. Also at my school I bet there would have been loads of dramas with kids fighting over desirable bits of clothing (like there was when people brought anything good in, basically), whereas noone is going to be fighting over a school tie.

 

[Argonia]

At my school we had houses with different school ties. Mine was quite nice blue colour but there were other houses with garish purples and mauves and bright yellows that I chuckled at.

 

[philosophical]

I wonder if it’s a good use of a teacher’s time checking uniforms.
Perhaps there is a new enterprise of uniform checkers waiting to be established.
I have a vague notion that there may be packed lunch inspectors too.

 

[chilango]

Yes. I always call it Hogwarts (it's not far from my mum's house) because it's a very imposing old-fashioned building with spires and stuff.

I'm currently writing about school architecture and it's symbolic work in reproducing class segregation

 

[chilango]

I am not sure it is very important whether kids wear school uniform or not. I def don't recall it preventing kids being bullied for not having much money. However I guess it removes one thing to think about when you are getting ready in the morning, so it might leave that bit of the brain a bit more free for learning ? It is just one tiny thing less to worry about. Also at my school I bet there would have been loads of dramas with kids fighting over desirable bits of clothing (like there was when people brought anything good in, basically), whereas noone is going to be fighting over a school tie.

OTOH there's a huge amount of conflict and drama between pupils and teachers centred on pointless shit like school ties so...

 

[maomao]

I'm currently writing about school architecture and it's symbolic work in reproducing class segregation

Go and have a look at Fetters then (if you haven't already). From the south it's very imposing.

 

[chilango]

I wonder if it’s a good use of a teacher’s time checking uniforms.
Perhaps there is a new enterprise of uniform checkers waiting to be established.
I have a vague notion that there may be packed lunch inspectors too.

I worked at a (state) school where the pupils were expected to lay out there pencil cases etc. on their desks (according to a diagram they were all given) at registration before they were allowed to sit down.

bonkers.

 

[rubbershoes]

Also, according to my research, private schools make much less of a fuss about uniforms than state schools do.

It's what Bourdieu called "symbolic violence". It's never posh white boys getting sent home for not dressing up is it?

The private school I was at had a dress code rather than a uniform. No one was sent home for wearing the wrong stuff. That doesn't really work at a boarding school. Your clothes for the term will have been packed so you can't really say you don't have the right stuff

 

[chilango]

Go and have a look at Fetters then (if you haven't already). From the south it's very imposing.

I may. It's not in my sample data though.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

How did we go from british values to bloody uniform arguments?


Is this now a core brittish value? What am I saying of course it is.

Democracy, tolerance, rule of law, school uniform arguments

 

[maomao]

Oh I don’t disagree. Although I do wonder if it helps give kids a sense of identity and pride. Turning up every day in joggers and t shirts, where’s the self worth? It’s a competitive world out there and they need to be ready for it.

I suppose it's an introduction to the arbitrary rules and petty bullying of the private sector. Nothing wrong with jogging pants though.

 

[chilango]

I think having a uniform is quite a good idea but it should be supplied free of charge (ie paid for with taxes) all from the same supplier, so it is truly uniform, and it should not be gendered, and most of all it should be comfortable.

Interesting idea but (and I apologise here for the sarky answer, but I can't resist ))...

...this sort of thing already happens in prisons and the army which are famously free of bullying, right?

 

[chilango]

How did we go from british values to bloody uniform arguments?


Is this now a core brittish value? What am I saying of course it is.

Democracy, tolerance, rule of law, school uniform arguments

All pages in the same book...

 

[maomao]

How did we go from british values to bloody uniform arguments?


Is this now a core brittish value? What am I saying of course it is.

Democracy, tolerance, rule of law, school uniform arguments

Yeah these values aren't British, they're British, Irish, Australian, Maltese, Japanese and almost nowhere else. All weird island nations. Apparently if you live on a proper continent it's not needed.

 

[BillRiver]

Interesting idea but (and I apologise here for the sarky answer, but I can't resist ))...

...this sort of thing already happens in prisons and the army which are famously free of bullying, right?

Not quite, at least not in most prisons (I know almost nothing about the army tbh, nor about how comfy their uniforms are!). Also, I don't imagine this alone would end bullying, of course not.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I've done the research on this.

Kings Canterbury

Benenden

Charterhouse

Every 'posh' school has a uniform.

I went to Dollar.

I thoroughly detested it, and am not in contact with anyone I went to the school with.

 

[BillRiver]

Oh I don’t disagree. Although I do wonder if it helps give kids a sense of identity and pride. Turning up every day in joggers and t shirts, where’s the self worth? It’s a competitive world out there and they need to be ready for it.

Ready for what role in that world though?

They may be going on work in construction, or gardening, or health & fitness, for examples.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Go and have a look at Fetters then (if you haven't already). From the south it's very imposing.

Used to play them at hockey.

 

[Edie]

I suppose it's an introduction to the arbitrary rules and petty bullying of the private sector. Nothing wrong with jogging pants though.

Y’know what, in 10, 20 years time it’ll be absolutely irrelevant what uniform our kids wear anyway. Because China will be the new superpower, with their discipline and work ethic and strategic governance and infrastructure projects. With countries like India and Brazil, where there’s enough young people who are hungry for it, close behind. Globalisation is happening, and increasingly the competition is international. I bet they don’t gaf in China or India arguing about whether it’s against a child’s rights to wear uniform.

 

[Orang Utan]

No, they just throw themselves from factory roofs in despair

 

[chilango]

Kings Canterbury

Benenden

Charterhouse

Dude.

I've used, like, proper methodologically appropriate sampling techniques to get representative data from which I found that.

I know it's a bit counter-intuitive, and if you'd asked me a few years ago I'd have been surprised, but my data is pretty clear on this. Across the independent sector as a whole (and including very prestigious schools too) uniform is not as big a deal for them as it is for State schools. A far higher % of independent schools don't have a uniform at all and amongst those that do they're a lot less likely turn it into some fucking existential struggle.

Don't believe me? There's plenty of literature out there looking at why State school SLTs have such a hard-on for uniforms. The chapter in Kulz's "Factories for Learning" on the subject is a good place to start.

A few photos from Google won't change that.

 

[chilango]

Kings Canterbury

Benenden

Charterhouse

Every 'posh' school has a uniform.

I went to Dollar.

I thoroughly detested it, and am not in contact with anyone I went to the school with.

You also might want to look a little more closely at those pictures...

 

[maomao]

Y’know what, in 10, 20 years time it’ll be absolutely irrelevant what uniform our kids wear anyway. Because China will be the new superpower, with their discipline and work ethic and strategic governance and infrastructure projects. With countries like India and Brazil, where there’s enough young people who are hungry for it, close behind. Globalisation is happening, and increasingly the competition is international. I bet they don’t gaf in China or India arguing about whether it’s against a child’s rights to wear uniform.

No, they raise kids that are so spoiled because of the adult to child ratio that they can't dress themselves till they're teenagers and are unwilling to have more than one child when they grow up because they're worked like dogs and hate it.

I have worked in Chinese schools btw.

The generation that lived through the 60s are tough as old boots but the young people are spoiled rotten.