frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
you think?
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
you think?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
That is, as a generalisation, undoubtedly true. But I dont think it applies in this case at all. I simply do not believe a rape counsellor with over a decades experience in that role would make such assumptions in any other case, ditto the committee member I know very well.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
let's be honest, I don't think any cooper she is likely to have report it to is going to have heard of him.
I think considering the allegation was made two years after the incident, even if she had gone to the police, I doubt it would have got anywhere near a courtroom.
eta: I am just looking over the transcript again and it is more like 3 or 4 years after the incident. It was two years after the first complaint.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Dull, dull, dull
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
yes they are.Dull, dull, dull
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Not so sure. I can imagine the conversation getting quite quickly around to the nature of her relationship with him, how they met etc and even who she asked for help after the incident which would be duiiifcult to discuss without their shared memebrship of a certain party coming up. And from there to someone in the Met realising they have a live one here isn't too big a leap surely? At that point even if they didn't think it would hold in court there would be a severe temptation to give it a go just for the damage it could cause. Maybe that's too Machiavellian but I don't necessarily think so.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Am I understanding you correctly? You think the potential bad PR of a public court hearing was a deciding factor for not referring to the police?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
No you're not understanding me properly.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You'll never make it in stand-up if that's the best material you've got.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
What did you mean then? Because that's what "even if they didn't think it would hold in court there would be a severe temptation to give it a go just for the damage it could cause" looks like.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
not sure how relevant it is but i had a converstation sometime in the eighties, with a member of the control commission (ccc) who was also a friend. i had heard a comrade in birmingham, who i thought very highly of, had been expelled over a rape allegation, i asked the ccc member if he knew anything about it, his response was that he did as it was him who expelled him. i asked whether the former comrade was guilty or not. the ccc member replied that he had no idea, his job wasn't to decide whether he was guilty or not but to do what was best for the party.
i came away with the impression that just to be accused of rape in the swp would lead to your expulsion.
i came away with the impression that just to be accused of rape in the swp would lead to your expulsion.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
So a sentence about the possible motivation of the police looks like me saying something about the motivation of the woman for not going to them? That's a logical non sequitor far as I can see but god bless your eyesight if it looks that way to you.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
No. A sentence about the possible motivation of the police to pursue it to a public court hearing saying something about the reluctance of the CC/DC to refer the woman to the police in the first place. Bless.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
eh? You've got this completely back to front. Really.
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
Meanwhile in the Blogosphere, I see that the number of signatories to the 'Open letter to the SWP' from previous contributors to Marxism has gone up to 34.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I may well have done. In which case someone can clarify what "At that point even if they didn't think it would hold in court there would be a severe temptation to give it a go just for the damage it could cause" means in this context.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The 'they' refers to the police, not the CC.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
He was suggesting that was a temptation for the police he was not talking about the SWP at all.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
thanks
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Yeah, I get that "they" referred to the police. What I don't get it why the police giving it a go just for the damage it could cause [at a public court hearing]* would be a factor in (presumably) not actively encouraging her to report.
* there's the issue of convincing the CPS too here of course
* there's the issue of convincing the CPS too here of course
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
http://openletterswp.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/open-letter-to-the-swp-about-the-current-crisis/
The list keeps growing.
Their serious art analysis for Marxism is screwed now.
'Steve Edwards and Gail Day - Revolutionary art today - Marxism 2012'
Robert Knox was writing for the ISJ and even quoted positively by Callinicos only a few months ago.
"Elsewhere in this journal Alex Anievas, Adam Fabry and Robert Knox demonstrate the continuities between Obama’s foreign policy and that of his Republican predecessor George W Bush."
http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=846&issue=136
Sheila Cohen and Kim Moody are both associated with Solidarity US.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Where is the suggestion that it was a factor? It wasn't.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
With the reaction of the SWP to close ranks since the accusation was made public, it looks quite likely to me that they *would* have discouraged the woman from going to the police because of the damage it would do to the SWP's reputation.
I think that would be a fairly common reaction of a group 'on the fringes' including SWP and cults. I very much doubt she was given a free and informed choice with no pressure whatsoever.
I think that would be a fairly common reaction of a group 'on the fringes' including SWP and cults. I very much doubt she was given a free and informed choice with no pressure whatsoever.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
But the exchange was following from this: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/swp-expulsions-and-squabbles.303876/page-154#post-11934733
The exchange looks to me as though reputational risk is a factor here. I'm not being awkward for the sake of it; that's just how the exchange read to me.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No it doesnt, not at all. Someone fucking up and then being defensive isn't any evidence an earlier cover up.
They have their problems, but to equate them to a cult just shows your own prejudices about them, I'm afraid.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
what is 'this'? all that link does is bring up the thread.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
And the descriptions of people being called in individually and expelled from the party unless they recant? That's pure cult.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Apologies, I can't seem to link it properly. It's where Bolshiebhoy says "Well I think we can almost guarantee that in this case the woman invloved would have had one of the warmest and most sympathetic hearings imaginable from officers given the chance to damage the swp generally and this guy in particular" #4617
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