SWP expulsions and squabbles

[andysays]

Participants at Marxism spoke to Socialist Worker about their experience of the event. Martin is a lecherer and an member of the UCU union.​

“I met Socialist Workers Party members at my union conference who told me about Marxism,” he said. “I definitely want to come more often now.​

​

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Been listening to the recordings of meetings at the ISO event a couple of weeks back over on wearemany.org

Lot of quality but also some quite explicit interventions in the SWP debates. Just finished Ahmed Shawki's talk on the Legacy of the International Socialists which is basically a 30 min hatchet job on Cliff, the transformation from the IS to the SWP and the current leadership. Phrases like degeneration, terminal and "100's more about to leave" abound. And he makes no bones about the ISO seeing itself as trying to win over the rest of the tendency to the ISO-ISN axis.

For all his 'we need to build a new open, heterodox tendency' it was funny hearing Shawki swearing at the crowd during his Perspectives meeting cause they'd taken half an hour before their first round of applause for him. Hagiography is in the eye of the beholder always...

 

[belboid]

nah. the year of shouty nutcases. all the shouty nutters in my branch joined in 85.

88 was the best vintage.

I joined in 85 and 88, so what does that make me?

 

[Idris2002]

theres more watching on the big screens outside

You forgot the ones that joined hands in a dark room in an attempt to contact the living.

 

[discokermit]

I joined in 85 and 88, so what does that make me?

leaving yourself wide open there.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Yer Association of Musical Marxists have just published this book, presumably to coincide with Marxism 2013:

Sections on The SWP Crisis, sexism, democracy...

 

[belboid]

leaving yourself wide open there.

there's a Martin Smith joke in there somewhere, but I think I'll leave it

 

[belboid]

Yer Association of Musical Marxists have just published this book, presumably to coincide with Marxism 2013:

Sections on The SWP Crisis, sexism, democracy...

due out on kindle in a week or so too!

 

[Oisin123]

Been listening to the recordings of meetings at the ISO event a couple of weeks back over on wearemany.org ...

Hey BB, did you contribute to Comrade Delta's Masters fund? Will you, if asked? Because if they can't get cash from a loyalist like you, the poor fella might have to get a ... job. How the mighty will have fallen.

 

[DotCommunist]

I joined in 85 and 88, so what does that make me?

a nutty, yet rounded taste that combines the fruitiness of latter years with its cask-aged depth. Probably best left till 2016 when it can be enjoyed over the ashes of the Liberal Democrat Party

 

[DotCommunist]

Vin table obviously. We save the good stuff till later

 

[laptop]

a nutty, yet rounded taste that combines the fruitiness of latter years with its cask-aged depth. Probably best left till 2016 when it can be enjoyed over the ashes of the Liberal Democrat Party

A White, then?

 

[cesare]

Hey BB, did you contribute to Comrade Delta's Masters fund? Will you, if asked? Because if they can't get cash from a loyalist like you, the poor fella might have to get a ... job. How the mighty will have fallen.

Isn't he a full timer? Ie this *is* his job?

 

[The39thStep]

Yer Association of Musical Marxists have just published this book, presumably to coincide with Marxism 2013:

Sections on The SWP Crisis, sexism, democracy...

preaching to the reconverted

 

[Fozzie Bear]

According to wikipedia Dave Renton went to Eton - I didn't know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Renton

 

[Oisin123]

Isn't he a full timer? Ie this *is* his job?

I don't think paid employment by the SWP or UAF is a secure source of income for him now.

 

[Oisin123]

According to wikipedia Dave Renton went to Eton - I didn't know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Renton

He's obviously one of the good guys, particularly in the current SWP crisis. But where, in our times, are the prominent revolutionary activists, one with genuine working class roots? If James Connolly could educate himself in a much more difficult era - in terms of gaining sophisticated political and literary skills - to the point that he could write Labour in Irish History, then why aren't there more revolutionaries of working class background in leadership roles today? Seriously. It's topic related, in that if the SWP CC and NC had fewer members originating from grammar school and even public school, they might not be in this mess.

 

[cesare]

I don't think paid employment by the SWP or UAF is a secure source of income for him now.

You'd think not. But I've heard of nothing to suggest investigatory suspension, investigation and dismissal for gross misconduct. It seems as though he's being shuffled about and kept in low profile - but beyond that it's hard to get past the smoke and mirrors to ascertain whether he's still a (senior) employee.

 

[Pickman's model]

i've seen enough trots today to fill the gents at wapping's prospect of whitby - a smaller turnout than last year

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Hey BB, did you contribute to Comrade Delta's Masters fund? Will you, if asked? Because if they can't get cash from a loyalist like you, the poor fella might have to get a ... job. How the mighty will have fallen.

Did you discuss that with the ISO when you were in Chicago?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

He's obviously one of the good guys, particularly in the current SWP crisis. But where, in our times, are the prominent revolutionary activists, one with genuine working class roots? If James Connolly could educate himself in a much more difficult era - in terms of gaining sophisticated political and literary skills - to the point that he could write Labour in Irish History, then why aren't there more revolutionaries of working class background in leadership roles today? Seriously. It's topic related, in that if the SWP CC and NC had fewer members originating from grammar school and even public school, they might not be in this mess.

What a load of populist bollox from an academic. Particularily when if we were to use class background as the arbiter of correctness in this debate the loyalist wing of the party would be hands down the winners. Silly discussion for any trot to entertain in a factional debate anyway. This stuff doesn't matter. I don't agree with Dave Renton on this debate but it really, really doesn't matter one tiny iota what school he went to. He's a great fella who happens to be on the wrong side imho in this debate. But his class background has fuck all to do with that any more than Bergfeld's, Seymour's or Callinicos' has anything to do with their position on this mess.

 

[tony.c]

no need to go, you can read how it went here, http://bloggingjbloggs1917.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/marxism-2013/

Other meetings of great interest includes Paul Holborrow talking about the rise of UKIP, recently plagued by allegations of rape and the party merely holding an internal investigation and not believing the victim.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Molyneux tonight on What is the Real IS tradition should be a nice rejoinder to the ISO-ISN. Until I'd listened to Shawki earlier today with his 'funny' english accent as he bashed the 'Brits' I never thought anyone could make me so pro British. British with a Gluckstein accent that is.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Hang on, didn't you have some crisis of conscience a few months ago and decide that the opposition were right?

 

[Before Theory]

Hang on, didn't you have some crisis of conscience a few months ago and decide that the opposition were right?

Apology Boy has trotted back into line behind his master. Why is anyone surprised ? Plus if he's going to be subsidising Delta's further education for the foreseeable future, then he really has to come back into the little tent again.

 

[cesare]

i've seen enough trots today to fill the gents at wapping's prospect of whitby - a smaller turnout than last year

One cubicle, two urinals. Apparently

 

[laptop]

I had this mental image of filling a urinal with trots. Barf.

 

[andysays]

I joined in 85 and 88, so what does that make me?

Confused; gullible; not able to learn from your mistakes, at least in the short term?

What do you think it makes you?

 

[andysays]

One cubicle, two urinals. Apparently

Is this some clever detournement of a dialectical slogan of which I am ignorant?

 

[audiotech]

.....funny hearing Shawki swearing at the crowd during his Perspectives meeting...

Yeah, "funny" to hear him admit mistakes. Then there's: 'The smaller you are the more mistaken you can become. Wishful thinking, or in some cases cut off from reality'. Has a ring to it.

Quoting Harman's '79 pamphlet on technology is a case in point. When I first read that I thought what a load of old tosh. It concluded, and I'll paraphrase here: 'Can you imagine the working class in every council tower block having access to such technology?' Err, yes. Harman thought not.

Ahmed Shawki's speech on:
The Legacy of International Socialism.