SWP expulsions and squabbles

[Pickman's model]

I was thinking of its impact on some of the more militant public sector unions like PCS or NUT which have been very reliant on a national bargaining model.

Not terribly reassured by the idea that they can handle it by becoming more like USDAW - useless seven days a week!

should be yr tagline

 

[articul8]

I would have thought they'd have taught you to spell "your" at that expensive school of yours

 

[ViolentPanda]

No chance

Given the calibre of some of the utter u-bends that get listed to go before selection committees, I wouldn't be so sure. Millbank would probably love his "networking" with Hilary, and the fact that he's a vapid Webbite fuckbag.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's not his radical past that is the problem, more his apparent lack of political nous or strategic or analytical thought

Hardly a handicap, nowadays, surely?

 

[oskarsdrum]

You are having a laugh aren't you?

optimism of the will comrade.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

That would mean the unions paying the deposits, having a way of clawing back deposits from the members in the event of a successful claim or settlement, or being prepared to lose the deposit in the case of an unsuccessful claim/s.

The unions will pay - that's what they're going to do.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I was thinking of its impact on some of the more militant public sector unions like PCS or NUT which have been very reliant on a national bargaining model.

Not terribly reassured by the idea that they can handle it by becoming more like USDAW - useless seven days a week!

Fairpoint, I think PCS are screwed certainly

 

[cesare]

The unions will pay - that's what they're going to do.

The unions get their funds from their members. Unless they have additional funding from outside their membership, increased costs result in increased membership dues.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The unions get their funds from their members. Unless they have additional funding from outside their membership, increased costs result in increased membership dues.

It's still open for debate where the money will come from - but it will not come from members being charged for tribunal claims, that is out of the question, for fairly obvious reasons really.

 

[cesare]

It's still open for debate where the money will come from - but it will not come from members being charged for tribunal claims, that is out of the question, for fairly obvious reasons really.

I suppose if unions are still going to try and maintain the insurance policy/social partnership model (and assuming no outside-the-union funding) it will result in increased membership dues across the board on the basis that *some* members might one day need union funding for a tribunal deposit. It's probably worth a thread in itself, sorry, just remembered this is on the SWP squabbly thread

 

[oskarsdrum]

looks like swp squabble discussion has died a death for now. very reduced prominence, to a surprisingly negligible level, on our regional nhs demo today. the cbgp(ml) had about as much presence! SP seemed to be filling the gap, regret not expressing my views on the recent behaviour of their EC in retrospect. but I've always been a concilitarian....

 

[oskarsdrum]

mind you. I think the SP would do better if they had something better than the sectional issue of public sector pensions to give out a leaflet about at an nhs demo! and I say this as someone glad to see The Socialist being the majority paper sold (and as a public sector employee)

 

[Nigel Irritable]

looks like swp squabble discussion has died a death for now. very reduced prominence, to a surprisingly negligible level, on our regional nhs demo today. the cbgp(ml) had about as much presence! SP seemed to be filling the gap, regret not expressing my views on the recent behaviour of their EC in retrospect. but I've always been a concilitarian....

We're now in a lull period in the SWP's crisis, with the first split now complete. There will still be some relevant incidents, like the heckling at the Glasgow bedroom tax protest, particularly in the run up to Marxism. But mostly, the relevant discussion will centre around observations like yours of the degree to which they've declined and/or held themselves together, and also their various twists and turns as they try to reestablish themselves as players in campaigns etc. At least until the internal rows kick off again, which will happen by the next pre conference period at the latest.

Interesting point about your regional demo, by the way. Where was it?

 

[oskarsdrum]

that's a fine summary!

It was the Yorkshire one. It was pretty enjoyable to take in the organisational minute of the afternoon in a way I've never been able to whilst shifting papers (or rather, trying but failing to do that) also noted:

- a group of anarchists make one of the few SW sellers feel extremely uncomfortable
- guy with a big CWI banner debates at length with the aforementioned tankies
- the only non-party leaflet handed out being about the nhs in a totally different area to the march (60+ miles away), and nothing at all was being handed out to the hearteningly supportive general public
- my girlfriend has a good critique of the problems of samba replacing chanting on demos. anarchists and CWI banner fella make efforts to restorer chanting but with limited success.

I can imagine the whole nhs issue maybe seems a bit weird/exotic from an Irish perspective. or are the politics of your system not so different?

For the SWP round here the bedroom tax demo in Leeds 20th April will be an interesting test since some local members have played a leading role. I'd be very surprised if they don't use that to try and prove a point.

 

[oskarsdrum]

oh and also, for completeness:

- there were some swp placards in and amongst but surely a pale shadow of the widespread coverage of yesteryear
- not many visible parry folk there no, but none whatsoever from the post-downturn generations as far as I could see. Seems that in some areas at least, they've lost a far higher proportion of the active membership than the bare figures would suggest.

 

[butchersapron]

Bristol SWP in big trouble, last few medium long termers walked out in big shouty row this week. They have nothing here now. Wiped out.

 

[Pickman's model]

oh and also, for completeness:

- there were some swp placards in and amongst but surely a pale shadow of the widespread coverage of yesteryear
- not many visible parry folk there no, but none whatsoever from the post-downturn generations as far as I could see. Seems that in some areas at least, they've lost a far higher proportion of the active membership than the bare figures would suggest.

What you're trying to say is they're no longer 24 hr party people, save in the duration of new arrivals' membership

 

[articul8]

Another woman claiming to have been sexually assaulted by an (as yet unnamed) "socialist" and "trade unionist":
http://sakollantai.wordpress.com/20...d-male-abuse-of-power-in-the-labour-movement/

She's an SP member who also posted this on FB:

this woman has been treated sickeningly by the socialist party for speaking out about a sexual assault by an SP member and union official and for demanding action be taking against him. this has got to stop. organisations need to stop protecting abusers over victims and potential victims for their own political expediency, it's the lowest of the low. this is not what a progressive movement looks like.

[...]
i do need also to point out that there are many and growing SP members who agree with me and the overwheling majority of SP members do not know anything at all about the case. This is my way of telling them and everybody else to. I will write again on this experience and will publish but please allow me time whilst there is also the general issue of women's safety in the movement and yes campaign within my party to learn from this and hopefully, correct recent mistakes. comradely and fraternally or sisterly even

 

[Pickman's model]

Another woman claiming to have been sexually assaulted by an (as yet unnamed) "socialist" and "trade unionist":
http://sakollantai.wordpress.com/20...d-male-abuse-of-power-in-the-labour-movement/

She's an SP member who also posted this on FB:

perhaps you could start a thread on such incidents in your own party.

 

[articul8]

are you aware of any specific allegations? (I'm not)

 

[Pickman's model]

are you aware of any specific allegations? (I'm not)

So you're aware of allegations. You'll recalll nick clegg saying he was not aware of any specific allegations about rennard.

 

[articul8]

nothing in the league of other examples on this thread I'm glad to say

 

[Scribbling S]

Bristol SWP in big trouble, last few medium long termers walked out in big shouty row this week. They have nothing here now. Wiped out.

Yow, that's a problem for the SWP - any feeling what the shouty row was about ?

 

[Pickman's model]

nothing in the league of other examples on this thread I'm glad to say

Still not got to grips with the quote tool I see

 

[Pickman's model]

Yow, that's a problem for the SWP - any feeling what the shouty row was about ?

They're trots: they shout and row. It's what they do. Does there need to be a reason?

 

[treelover]

http://www.facebook.com/events/101219716723308/

Apparently the person who has called the big protest on 4th May, Dan J Morgan, is a recent departee from the SWP, absolutely no Leninism now now going by the site

 

[frogwoman]

It's because that's how the working class are portrayed on Soaps and even serious dramas.* Incoherently raging all the time, often about fuck all that matters. Or crying. Middle class activists see it and think that's how working class people behave.


*Why can't we have soaps and dramas about working class people who are quiet and thoughtful and read Kafka and Orhan Pamuk? And never shout about how nobody loves their horrible snivelling kids as much as they do? Or better still, don't even have kids and don't ever want them?

As if middle class people never incoherently rage or cry about fuck all that matters

 

[J Ed]

It's because that's how the working class are portrayed on Soaps and even serious dramas.* Incoherently raging all the time, often about fuck all that matters. Or crying. Middle class activists see it and think that's how working class people behave.

I've never heard that theory before. Interesting!

 

[frogwoman]

On TV and in film, the working class is usually portrayed, even by sympathetic writers, as consisting mostly of emotionally unstable characters who can't articulate their thoughts without resorting to some degree of violence.

Can't we have some soaps and dramas about working class people who don't want to share their feelings with anybody, and would generally like everybody to just piss off?

People sitting around reading books doesn't make for good telly tho

 

[Pickman's model]

It's because that's how the working class are portrayed on Soaps and even serious dramas.* Incoherently raging all the time, often about fuck all that matters. Or crying. Middle class activists see it and think that's how working class people behave.


*Why can't we have soaps and dramas about working class people who are quiet and thoughtful and read Kafka and Orhan Pamuk? And never shout about how nobody loves their horrible snivelling kids as much as they do? Or better still, don't even have kids and don't ever want them?

this is about the swp, not about the working class.

next.