SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I know that Glasgow has the most irrationally factionalised left in Britain, but even in that context that's a bit of a stretch. I'd like to see someone try to justify that: we're going to try and hassle an organisation about something that's nothing to do with them because one of their members was a steward on a demonstration when we started to heckle someone else? No chance.
How many of the protesters were affiliated, by the way? At least one of them is a supporter of the Irish WSM, rather bizarrely.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Not really, the stewards know exactly who Sherry is and what he did, not too difficult to see how the link with your organisation is made. And given the CWI were prominent in the setting up of the 'federation' that organised the demo and if the CWI did have no problem with Sherry being on the platform as i'm hearing then that too links you. Not to mention 2 CWI members shared the platform with him... So your 'no chance' starts to fade a little...
I only recognised 1 and she's not in any of the former SSP splits or anything like that, an anarchist as I remember.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
That's so tenuous that even the most bitter factionalist won't bother. A number of rump SSP people are all over twitter gloating for instance, and not even they've thought it worth it to try that angle.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
I don't think gloating is a good idea, but can you feel happy about your organisation sharing a platform with him?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I think it was needlessly provocative of the SWP to put him up as a speaker. I've no criticism of anyone else who was on the platform for also using it.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Agree on the former, I think the fallout will affect some of the others on the platform, ie those who know/knew the background to the heckling.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Putting Sherry up to speak was idiotic. The heckling was idiotic. Trying to strongly imply that the CWI 'share the blame' because they 'allowed' the speaker is idiotic.
As the earlier poster said - idiots. The fucking lot of them. The left is fucked in Scotland. I just hope it does not impact too much on the campaign about the real issues the demonstration was about.
As the earlier poster said - idiots. The fucking lot of them. The left is fucked in Scotland. I just hope it does not impact too much on the campaign about the real issues the demonstration was about.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Heckling a man who was on the DC that looked at the rape allegations was idiotic? What should they have done, written a strongly worded letter?
I don't think the CWI share blame for anything. Dennis your organisation was sharing a platform with him and was involved in the stewarding, no blame is shared but your organisation are involved with his being there like it or not. By the way there was a meeting before the demo that decided they had too many speakers so they reduced the number of disability group speaker. Sherry remained, he should have been removed then or not even on the platform at all.
There's already been 4 resignations from the committee, Sheridan and 3 others.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
There won't be much "fallout" from a bit of internecine yelling on a demo, even for the SWP or for the people doing the shouting.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
This is Glasgow remember, farting at a meeting is often seen as a sectarian criticism....
dynamicbaddog
run for your life
there's food not bombs in New Cross, South London,most of those involved are students from Goldsmiths they collect food every Monday and Wednesday and take it to a nearby hostel who let them use their kitchens to make a meal to serve to their residents. It's been going for quite a few years now.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Picket Marxism. Fuck it, occupy Marxism. That way the target is clear, there's no collateral damage and bystanders don't get caught in the crossfire.
As anyone here can tell you I'm no friend of the SWP. I've heckled them. I've disrupted their speakers, their meetings, their chants. Whatever. I bet I looked like a right dick though to anyone passing by.
As anyone here can tell you I'm no friend of the SWP. I've heckled them. I've disrupted their speakers, their meetings, their chants. Whatever. I bet I looked like a right dick though to anyone passing by.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
I think they are better bets, but it's not idiotic in any way shape or form to heckle him given what he did. Idiotic is having him on the platform.....
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Fuck off like you care about this intra trot debate and what's worse you're making it about working class people eating. Jog on.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
why? Which speaker is non provocative? Only the ones not named by the Mail?
eoin_k
Lawyer's fees, beetroot and music
Do you actually think you are making the situation better for the smallest mass party in the world with this shit?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Better with who?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Ok so some time ago belboid suggested that in my heart of hearts I knew everyone was right re the substantive issue on this thread and it's handling by the party. I wouldn't have agreed with him when he said that but another old timer convinced me tonight. Cant explain how she convinced me, she just did in tones that only made sense to those of us sharing a certain background. There was no moralism (not that belboid or emy or other not overly aggressive opponents of the mess that has engulfed the SWP are guilty of moralism, they're not), no identity politics hand waving, just a probable statement about what probably went on and a believable description of why the party fucked up on recognising what happened and reacting appropriately. And I can't bring myself to argue against that any more. against the politics of the splitters yes I can muster some energy. But after what she said to me I just can't defend the indefensible any more.
BK Double Stack
Reconstructed Marcyite
First time ever on this site was a month or so ago to lurk on this thread. It is now my 8th most-visited website. Bolshie's "revelation" caused me to set up an account just to like that comment.
oskarsdrum
Active Member
fair play to you bolshie. onto honest debating out of the shadow of the current leading personnel, as it should be!
oskarsdrum
Active Member
BK. don't you think it feels a little like stepping into your favourite soap, weirdly exhilarating at first.
is anyone in the uk involved in anything where the swp are a serious presence still? this has mainly cleared them out of activity in the local left here, except there's probably a few good union reps still going. will UtR be abandoned by the summer? longer term, how much are SP likely to gain from being the only game in town for young socialists in most places?
is anyone in the uk involved in anything where the swp are a serious presence still? this has mainly cleared them out of activity in the local left here, except there's probably a few good union reps still going. will UtR be abandoned by the summer? longer term, how much are SP likely to gain from being the only game in town for young socialists in most places?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
This has come up before. The answer, in my view at least, is not much. They will find things easier in some small towns where the organised left has consisted of just them and the SWP, but overall, this whole fucking disaster will damage the wider left and make it harder for anyone to recruit.
To be blunt about it, there are a number of SP members I know who would be reveling, in a slightly childish way, in the SWP fucking up had the issue been almost anything else. But nobody thinks that what has actually happened is remotely amusing. The English SP has a reputation for being more than a little dour, but in fact they tend to be very dryly self-aware about themselves and about the left as a whole, at least in my experience. Even so, none of them are cracking jokes about this. It's just fucking awful. Lots of them have low opinons of the SWP in other regards, but none of them expected anything like this endlessly extended car crash.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Try to think about this fairly. Whatever your views on the SWP's recent behaviour, putting a DC member up as a speaker at a major protest is a straightforward way to invite heckling in current circumstances. An insistence on "toughing things out" is one thing, but doing so in circumstances where a a wider demo could predictably be disrupted as a consequence is another.
By the way, fair play on your other post. That's got to be hard.
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
It looks like a "No Platform for the SWP" campaign is starting to get off the ground. Not a healthy development. Breaking up meetings and preventing people speaking is not a legitimate way to express political criticism or opposition.yep. if i was involved in organising any protest atm, i'd think long and hard before allowing any SWP speakers. actually, i wouldn't think long and hard about it at all.
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