SWP expulsions and squabbles

[cesare]

Whoever said that HR don't deal with rape allegations is misinformed, btw.

 

[J Ed]

It has occurred to me that those who supported the DC report and who shouted liar at people. Would have been the most ardent opponents of Delta if the CC had taken a line against him. These are people who are incapable of any independent thought who are totally and passionately committed to whatever line the CC gives them, even if it was different the day before. And with the possible exception of Stack it is people like this who made up the DC.

How do people like this end up in left-wing groups? It confuses me because there are so many of them but it seems to me like they'd be more suited in less counter-cultural groups?

 

[the button]

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/944/swp-why-i-am-resigning

SW journo resigns, and does a bit of naming.

 

[ViolentPanda]

who are you you fucking bell end?

FFS, next you'll be asking "do you know who I am, you fucking bell end?".

 

[ViolentPanda]

It has occurred to me that those who supported the DC report and who shouted liar at people. Would have been the most ardent opponents of Delta if the CC had taken a line against him. These are people who are incapable of any independent thought who are totally and passionately committed to whatever line the CC gives them, even if it was different the day before. And with the possible exception of Stack it is people like this who made up the DC.

I don't agree that they're incapable.
It's actually far worse than that, insofar as these are people who willingly give up the freedom to exercise independent thought. If they merely were incapable/lacked the capacity, you could at least feel sorry for them. As it is, they've willingly ceded their freedom to think critically. That doesn't deserve pity. It deserves a kicking.

 

[articul8]

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/944/swp-why-i-am-resigning

SW journo resigns, and does a bit of naming.

this is the guy i was referring to in my post up the thread

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whoever said that HR don't deal with rape allegations is misinformed, btw.

Although some of them mishandle them. A mate who worked for BT found that he'd been fired when he was accused of rape. After being charged, remanded to a nick, and spending what he called "the worst month of my life" waiting to be tried, the case was dropped, and he came home to no job, and a lot fewer fairweather friends. Fortunately, when he asked around a few solicitors, one spotted that BT had transgressed their own disciplinary procedure and manipulated the issue of sacking by using a nebulous bit of phrasing in their "gross misconduct" rules to justify it. In the end he settled for redundancy-type terms, plus some "damages".

 

[cesare]

Although some of them mishandle them. A mate who worked for BT found that he'd been fired when he was accused of rape. After being charged, remanded to a nick, and spending what he called "the worst month of my life" waiting to be tried, the case was dropped, and he came home to no job, and a lot fewer fairweather friends. Fortunately, when he asked around a few solicitors, one spotted that BT had transgressed their own disciplinary procedure and manipulated the issue of sacking by using a nebulous bit of phrasing in their "gross misconduct" rules to justify it. In the end he settled for redundancy-type terms, plus some "damages".

Definitely. It's a difficult area to do well, and all too bloody easy to completely fuck it up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How do people like this end up in left-wing groups? It confuses me because there are so many of them but it seems to me like they'd be more suited in less counter-cultural groups?

Cart before horse. Some people join political groups (it's not just a disease of the left by any means) and then abdicate their freedom to think independently after they've been indoctrinated with the group's ideology.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/944/swp-why-i-am-resigning

SW journo resigns, and does a bit of naming.

I did wonder who Comrade Delta was and it did occur to me who it might be based on previous reported alleged incidents. I can't see the SWP in its old form surviving this.

Regrettably this will bring much satisfaction to the right wing politicos and those who who are screwing over the working class. That is, those of them who will ever have heard of the SWP.

 

[Red Cat]

I don't agree that they're incapable.
It's actually far worse than that, insofar as these are people who willingly give up the freedom to exercise independent thought. If they merely were incapable/lacked the capacity, you could at least feel sorry for them. As it is, they've willingly ceded their freedom to think critically. That doesn't deserve pity. It deserves a kicking.

And what contributes to this will do you think?

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

Whoever said that HR don't deal with rape allegations is misinformed, btw.

Don't they do it in conjunction with informing the police though? I honestly don't know.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/944/swp-why-i-am-resigning

SW journo resigns, and does a bit of naming.

Really excellent letter in my view. Quite sad, but makes some great points, and kind of sums up a lot of the things I was thinking.

 

[Pickman's model]

Really excellent letter in my view. Quite sad, but makes some great points, and kind of sums up a lot of the things I was thinking.

'you're just thinking what others are saying'

 

[ViolentPanda]

And what contributes to this will do you think?

What contributes to people willingly giving up the freedom to exercise independent thought? As I said in post 1029, indoctrination. Add to that a need or desire to "belong" to something greater than yourself, and an urge to "change the world" through political means, and there's a (perhaps significant) minority of people who will willingly buy the dogma and stay the course, and are convinced that adherence to party diktat brings forward the glorious day.

 

[cesare]

Don't they do it in conjunction with informing the police though? I honestly don't know.

Not necessarily. There's a whole raft of different scenarios, some of which involve the police and some of which don't.

 

[lazythursday]

It's incredible what people will do to further the interests of a cause they feel something equivalent to religious fervour about. The AWL (in Socialist Organiser guise) tried to recruit me as a student, and one of the tactics was getting one of their activists (who I fancied) to sleep with me. I realised, during the act, that his heart really wasn't in it. He was doing it for the party. Which put me right off. And he had a strange, bent penis, but I'm sure that's not a general AWL trait.

 

[kavenism]

Really excellent letter in my view. Quite sad, but makes some great points, and kind of sums up a lot of the things I was thinking.

Yeah, very good contribution and a brave guy for doing it knowing the backlash he's now bound to face.I thought this was particularly bang on.

Leftwing parties are institutions that exist within our current society, and they need to put an analysis of gender and power relations at the absolute heart of their structures to avoid replicating that society’s problems. Moreover, a lack of democracy inside left organisations is not just a big political issue, but plays a role in enabling abusive behavior. Having a good record and theory on women’s liberation turns out to be little defence against this.

 

[Balbi]

It's incredible what people will do to further the interests of a cause they feel something equivalent to religious fervour about. The AWL (in Socialist Organiser guise) tried to recruit me as a student, and one of the tactics was getting one of their activists (who I fancied) to sleep with me. I realised, during the act, that his heart really wasn't in it. He was doing it for the party. Which put me right off. And he had a strange, bent penis, but I'm sure that's not a general AWL trait.

That's a little bit Mark Stone, and a lot of creepy.

 

[Balbi]

Funny parallels - I was involved, a while back, in a situation where one member was claiming a prejudice against them from some of the muslim and bme members, as a white convert with jewish roots. The allegations included being warned that they may face reprisal for comments she allegedly made regarding the prophet, and some general accusations of misogyny, anti-semitism and racism towards her. The member provided limited evidence, to the committee at the time, of which they were a member.

The committee decided to refer it up the ladder with regards to complaints that fell within the scope of the group, and strongly encourage the member to take the allegations which could result in criminal charges to go to the police over the issue. It's not for the exec of a political group to investigate potentially criminal activities, especially if it involves members of the exec. That's a bad, bad move.

 

[Nigel]

Although some of them mishandle them. A mate who worked for BT found that he'd been fired when he was accused of rape. After being charged, remanded to a nick, and spending what he called "the worst month of my life" waiting to be tried, the case was dropped, and he came home to no job, and a lot fewer fairweather friends. Fortunately, when he asked around a few solicitors, one spotted that BT had transgressed their own disciplinary procedure and manipulated the issue of sacking by using a nebulous bit of phrasing in their "gross misconduct" rules to justify it. In the end he settled for redundancy-type terms, plus some "damages".

You haven't got case details(citation for instance) for this?

 

[Rosa_L]

I have tried to explain why this sort of thing keeps happening on the left, here:

http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/page%2009_02.htm

 

[Nigel Irritable]

What has happened since the SWP conference at the weekend? Despite everything, the CC position is ‘draw a line under it and move on’. The opposition were also told to sign up to this or face expulsion. That applied as of the minute conference ended - and the leadership intends to enforce it.
The CC is shutting down all debate, on the pretext that it is about the rule that factions must dissolve after conference. Party workers are being spoken to individually, and if they refuse to give a guarantee that they will never so much as mention the case again, they are being told they must leave their party jobs. Some have already gone, others may be going as I write.
Meanwhile branches are being told that the criticisms of the disputes committee raised in conference will not be reported to them and cannot be discussed by any member, even in outline. At the behest of the CC, the Socialist Worker report of the conference does not even mention the disputes committee session. For one, this means that the reason behind the alternative CC slate is not explained at all.

This stuff is key to what happens next. Particularly taken alongside the SWP's apparent decision that Cde Delta will continue to play a prominent role.

 

[Pickman's model]

so not with a bang but with a whimper

 

[ViolentPanda]

You haven't got case details(citation for instance) for this?

Nope. All Ican remember is it was heard at Croydon, 1993.

 

[Nigel]

Nope. All Ican remember is it was heard at Croydon, 1993.

Thanx

 

[mk12]

I have tried to explain why this sort of thing keeps happening on the left, here:

http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/page%2009_02.htm

This reminds me of an article that was recommended to me a while ago (by butchers I think): http://www.left-dis.nl/uk/rackets.htm

Some interesting stuff in there about the nature of political "rackets" which accurately describe (some) Marxist organisations. It's a bit long-winded so here are so snippets:

Though political rackets seldom attain their goal of state power, their internal organisation mimics statist functions. The membership of the racket is its proletariat, and the leaders constitute a sort of portable mini-state

But joining a racket is usually exhilarating at the beginning, when the new recruit is convinced that his participation will shape history and that he’s joining a collective venture to help humanity. He also feels that he’s found a heroic community of like-minded comrades. Joining a racket has this hidden libidinal dimension, which explains the enormous attachment and zealotry of the members. At the beginning, a recruit is unaware that he’ll be persuaded to lose most of his individuality and free time, and that the false community of the racket will only accentuate his alienation

We can say that modern political rackets have these general characteristics:
- They gyrate around a guru, a charismatic leader (Weber) or ‘egocrat’ (Perlman). The guru is usually male, though rackets run by female gurus have been known to exist;
- The guru fosters and controls a centralised and despotic hierarchy. He relies on an inner faction of conspirators, who plot permanently against the racket’s membership. No racket is ruled by consensus or by transparent participatory methods;
- Rackets have a political platform or programme, usually of a messianic kind. One of the tasks of the guru is to inherit or draft and uphold this platform. Rackets attempt to influence the world around them by publishing regularly (or maintaining a web site). To them influencing others means recruitment, not contributing to an ongoing clarification of consciousness;
- Rackets recruit individuals who voluntarily join and are systematically persuaded by the guru’s infallibility. Once recruited, the racket’s goals is to alienate individuals further by making them sever many of their links with society. This is not a conscious conspiracy, but a process in which recruiter and recruited delude themselves and each other. The first by his denial of what takes place in the racket, and the latter by his suspension of critical thought;
- Rackets strive to become permanent but are constantly disrupted by internal dissension, splits and competition from rival rackets. Political divergences are rarely addressed – they are replaced by personal factionalism and competition for positions in the hierarchy. Thus the pervasive use of scapegoating and ad hominem attacks;
- Paradoxically, the survival of rackets depends on internal factionalism and external enemies. The climate of paranoia and search for scapegoats strengthens the guru’s control. He is reinforced by recurrent purges. New rivals, often formed by the expelled members, focus the survival instincts of the racket, creating paroxysms of hate and fostering a state of siege mentality. These centripetal and centrifugal ‘crises’, both carefully stage managed, aid the rackets’ survival;

 

[two sheds]

Interesting - and yes great similarities to cults. I particularly liked the RCPers carrying round wads of cash because capitalism was fucked so what the hell.

 

[discokermit]

 

[Red Cat]

What contributes to people willingly giving up the freedom to exercise independent thought? As I said in post 1029, indoctrination. Add to that a need or desire to "belong" to something greater than yourself, and an urge to "change the world" through political means, and there's a (perhaps significant) minority of people who will willingly buy the dogma and stay the course, and are convinced that adherence to party diktat brings forward the glorious day.

Surely indoctrination is the result not the cause of the will to give up independent thought.

Isn't all thought social? What is independent thought anyway?