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SWP expulsions and squabbles


TBH that's a lot better than some of the other logos they're producing. They seem to be obsessed with the Red Army Faction - there's a few of them who've replaced 'RAF' with 'international socialist network' on the star/ak logo. Hint to a would be new revolutionary group: adopting the logo of a terrorist group that killed workers probably isn't a good move, even if the logo does look cool as fuck.
 
TBH that's a lot better than some of the other logos they're producing. They seem to be obsessed with the Red Army Faction - there's a few of them who've replaced 'RAF' with 'international socialist network' on the star/ak logo. Hint to a would be new revolutionary group: adopting the logo of a terrorist group that killed workers probably isn't a good move, even if the logo does look cool as fuck.

I haven't seen the 'RAF' one. I don't mind their version of the Black Flag logo. I was just chuffed to bits that someone as ancient as me spotted the reference. It means I don't have to reach for my Daniel O'Donnell cds just yet.
 
This and your later assertions about the theoretical supremacy of SWP members in the 1980's is interesting as a example of the ability to look at an organisation in an era and see exactly opposite things. Now OK I, and the the other "Squadists" were all expelled by early 1982. But my contacts with SWP members during the 80's left a vivid constant impression simply of extreme inward looking organisational arrogance and sectarianism -( equalled only by my unfruitful contacts with Militant members in Liverpool) - not "ideological mastery" or "hard as nailishness". I certainly found anarchists and non aligned people much easier to work with on a range of issues, particularly anti fascist work, in the 1980's. In fact by the early 1980's onwards I think any objective analysis of the SWP would be that its brief "moment in the historical sun" was well over . The SWP's (as IS) "historical moment" was exclusively in the 1970's , alongside and feeding off the unprecedented industrial and political militancy of the time. The extraordinary industrial/political militancy of the anti-Heath years died away soon after the Wilson government took office in 1974 with its Social Contract bollocks - and IS , I think, really started dying with it - massively aided by Tony Cliff's ridiculously premature, self-destructive "Downturn" theory (which he even tried to impose on sister organisations overseas despite their very different domestic political situations - it was as if Cliff started suffering from personal depression issues after the decline of the often thrilling militancy during the Heath years , so the rest of the world had to follow suit !). The massively successful 1977 to 1980 main ANL Mk I period gave a brief period of continued dynamism, recruitment, and mass impact to SWP work - but it was always seen as a short term "stunt" by Cliff - and indeed couldn't compensate for the collapse of working class industrial struggle.

I would argue that for the rest of its entire lifespan the SWP has been essentially a slowly failing political cult of the WRP type. In the context of the era of neoliberal hegemony the only real priority for Cliff and the CC was organisational survival.- which often produced bizarre tactical decisions - such as the effective abstention of the SWP during one of the most historically significant strikes of the entire postwar era, the 84/85 Miners strike. So what "triumphs" can the SWP point to since the ANL Mk I, way back in the 70's ? None I would argue. I absolutely dismiss the Stop the War mobilisations as any sort of coherent Left political triumph, as, despite the huge numbers put on the streets, (and buckets of cash collected of course !) it was so completely compromised by the dreadful unprincipled political alliances made to sustain it , and the SWP was so unprincipled during this campaign as to call into question anybody in the SWP at the time's "political compass"..
I was a party member from 1985- 2003, I remember how, within our branch meetings, and Marxisms, we impressed ourselves with our intellectual and theoretical sophistication, and failed entirely to notice that the world around us was changing, and the audience willing to listen was shrinking. I was never instructed not to read non party literature, but it was considered unhealthy, ( the aggression and antipathy which was displayed toward the small groups outside Marxism was well beyond their threat to to the SWP, and displayed a closed mind attitude), and it is noticeable how I self censored my reading, and never strayed beyond leninisms.
I remember being at a Marxism I think in the early 1990s, and cliff declaring that everyone over 30 was 'rubbish'; in a mass rally full of comrades who had struggled and sacrificed through the dark days of the 1980s, and were at last being offered the chance that a new decade might finally give us some reward, some victories after so many defeats, here was our leader telling us that WE were the impediment preventing the SWP from succeeding!
And yet, did anyone protest? I was pissed off and looked around the hall, and all of these same people were laughing and applauding and shouting their agreement.
I remained a party member for another ten years, but that moment, when Cliff stood and insulted virtually his entire party, and they lapped it up, has stuck with me ever since.
 
Jean Luc's criticism is as useless as his 'the personal isn't political' gem and as sneering as his lynch mob accusations (still no sign of an apology). He's now added misrepresentation - only linking to half the leaflet is a pretty cheap shot - but maybe that's where a century of irrelevance and the hostility clause get you. Cheers - Louis MacNeice
I see you are quick to condemn someone without bothering to check the evidence. So here's the link again (which was provided by a SPEW member on another thread):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/125311046/TUSC-leaflet-for-Maltby-Town-Council-Election

Scroll down for the back pages and TUSC/Tory cuts (and the bowling green and tennis court) stuff.

No apology required.

As to the other business, I see a photo of one of the accused has appeared here. I'm just waiting for someone to publish his address. Anyway, I didn't have you in mind as your posts are generally so abstract and airy-fairy that it's not possible to grasp the point you are trying to make. You'd have thought a poet could do better.

On whether or not the personal is political, where do you draw the line? I think that SWP disciplinary committee report also dealt with somebody for brawling in a night club and other contributors here have reminisced about their policy on hairstyles. Is a person's hairstyle personal or political?
 
TBH that's a lot better than some of the other logos they're producing. They seem to be obsessed with the Red Army Faction - there's a few of them who've replaced 'RAF' with 'international socialist network' on the star/ak logo. Hint to a would be new revolutionary group: adopting the logo of a terrorist group that killed workers probably isn't a good move, even if the logo does look cool as fuck.

Way back I did an Earth First! Version of the RAF logo. EF! And a monkey wrench on a green star. It did indeed look cool as fuck. For pretty obvious reasons we never used it.
 
or the Association of Musical Marxists

sooty_harry_465_465x200.jpg

Dig that funky bear playing the vibes, maaaan!"
 
Speaking with a proletarian accent; being a fan of "the peoples' music" (jazz); wearing sportswear "like the proletarians do"; being a beer-swilling sexist (like all proletarian males are).
I hope that has set your mind at rest, comrade.

No football though. In a socialist society the days when 22 men kicked a ball around a pitch will be gone.
 
You can laugh, but personally I'm grateful that some our members have no lives - they're not great at recruitment, speeches or political education but they'll leaflet a housing estate like nobodies business. Leaving me free to waste my time on the internet... :hmm:

At the risk of "talking SP shop", has anyone come across a single ex-SWoP that is considering joining the SP? A few Wobbly mates of mine are convinced all this will mean lots of them "flock to us" (their term not mine). I'm sceptical - SWoP training 101 seems to include convincing new recruits that the SP is openly reformist, sexist and uninterested in anti-fascist work. In fact in all the stuff that's been written about this, I don't think anyone I've come across has suggested that joining the SP might be an option for some leaving the SWP. Am I being unneccessarily pessimistic in assuming not a single one of them would want to join us? Thoughts please - particularly from ex or current SWP members.
Im inclined to. :eek:
 
I was a party member from 1985- 2003, I remember how, within our branch meetings, and Marxisms, we impressed ourselves with our intellectual and theoretical sophistication, and failed entirely to notice that the world around us was changing, and the audience willing to listen was shrinking. I was never instructed not to read non party literature, but it was considered unhealthy, ( the aggression and antipathy which was displayed toward the small groups outside Marxism was well beyond their threat to to the SWP, and displayed a closed mind attitude), and it is noticeable how I self censored my reading, and never strayed beyond leninisms.
I remember being at a Marxism I think in the early 1990s, and cliff declaring that everyone over 30 was 'rubbish'; in a mass rally full of comrades who had struggled and sacrificed through the dark days of the 1980s, and were at last being offered the chance that a new decade might finally give us some reward, some victories after so many defeats, here was our leader telling us that WE were the impediment preventing the SWP from succeeding!
And yet, did anyone protest? I was pissed off and looked around the hall, and all of these same people were laughing and applauding and shouting their agreement.
I remained a party member for another ten years, but that moment, when Cliff stood and insulted virtually his entire party, and they lapped it up, has stuck with me ever since.

Good to see you don't bear a grudge though
 
Is Jean-Luc's criticism that it didn't talk about jack-booted fascism or the 3rd International Comitern?
No, it's that it didn't mention even mention capitalism, let alone the need to get rid of it and replace it by socialism (not even as they define it). It just blamed the Tories. Openly reformist Old Labour stuff.
 
It's sad to see the Left imploding - but truth be told the nut job David Icke can get 6500 folk to part with £65 a head for a 10 hour marathon in Wembley Arena leading up to the conclusion that world is controlled by shape-shifting reptilians - could the combined forces of the 'British Left' compete with that ? If not why not - these aren't revolutionary times more like end times.

The left has been in a constant state of implosion as long as I can remember (40 years of being politically-aware), and I'd hazard the opinion that while it might be destructive, it's also creative in a way that modes of conservatism and rightism have not been (and haven't needed to be since they jumped on the neo-liberal bandwagon).
 
I see you are quick to condemn someone without bothering to check the evidence. So here's the link again (which was provided by a SPEW member on another thread):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/125311046/TUSC-leaflet-for-Maltby-Town-Council-Election

Scroll down for the back pages and TUSC/Tory cuts (and the bowling green and tennis court) stuff.

No apology required.

As to the other business, I see a photo of one of the accused has appeared here. I'm just waiting for someone to publish his address. Anyway, I didn't have you in mind as your posts are generally so abstract and airy-fairy that it's not possible to grasp the point you are trying to make. You'd have thought a poet could do better.

On whether or not the personal is political, where do you draw the line? I think that SWP disciplinary committee report also dealt with somebody for brawling in a night club and other contributors here have reminisced about their policy on hairstyles. Is a person's hairstyle personal or political?

Apologies for the misrepresentation jibe (see it's that easy to do).

It is a shame that you can't be as straight forward regarding your lynch mob rubbish.

It's even more of a shame that you can't see the bloody obvious line, painted in glowing luminous orange which would alert any observant person to the fact that at times the personal is political; therefore it's just plain stupid to state the opposite.

Perhaps your regrettable attempt to draw a comparison between a hair cut and rape allegation is blurring your vision?

Louis MacNeice
 
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