barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
The Christian union is the largest group on campus, the lib dems were very public but disappeared entirely, assisted by my one person defacing campaign of their posters.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
To be fair, the move away from having meetings in pubs was well underway prior to Respect, and for a number of reasons:
1. skint people (as self, partner, and a number of other branch members were then) often can't afford pub nights
2. more difficult for young people to come to pubs
3. people might avoid pubs for religious reasons
4. reformed alcoholics avoid pubs
Basically, a non- pub venue for a meeting makes the meeting more accessible, and more likely to get new people along (in the case of a public mtg). Accessibility is what is important, not the personal preferences of some of the existing members.
I think it's important for activists to be clear about what is politics and what is simply their own rest and relaxation.
After the mtg of course what people do is up to them.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I see that OSS continues his epic quest to get someone to send him a copy of the Socialist Party's constitution over on Socialist Unity.
Best of luck to him, once more unto the breach, dear friends...
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
It was partially due to Islam and partially about a general change of image and the recognition that pubs do not always make the best meeting places, for the various reasons already given. Not to mention that it is getting quite difficult to find decent pubs to have meetings in anyway.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
also you can't have a snout in a pub now which makes the whole thing shit
Nowt worse than trying to have a meeting in a gastro-pub.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah. Why ruin a good meal?
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
there are hardly any SWP in a city the size of Bristol,
A friend of mine and a leading member of the SWP lives in Bristol, so I know that to be untrue.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
I'm not joining any party that doesn't meet in pubs. I know all the arguments but Duncan Hallas was right, Marxism and alcohol are inseparable. I only go canvassing for my mum in the Labour party cause she runs the campaign from her house and she always has supplies in.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
I actually had a contact turn down coming to a meeting because it was in a pub - he explained that he was a recovering alcoholic and that it would just be a difficult place for him to be.
I also remember that for people on the dole going to the pub was a bit awkward because they could not afford to buy a round. Having a meeting in a cafe or community centre meant less financial pressure.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
Loads of pubs here shut down now. Passed another one today. Also some of the pubs in town here have a bit of a rep for being "rough".
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
Smoking in swp meetings was also generally banned way before the smoking ban came in. Again it was about making meetings more accessible: you can't really attend a smokey meeting if you have respiratory problems as loads of people do around here. Plus people don't want to come along to a meeting and then risk their health due to secondary smoking.
andysays
Love and solidarity
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
It's not just pubs, it seem to be getting really hard to find meeting venues for a reasonable price, I've heard of one SWP branch that ended up meeting in the back room of a Subway!
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
We used to have SWP and SA meetings in a room at the local squash club: it satisfied everybody - no pressure to get drinks in, coffee and tea available, and bar afterwards for those that felt like it.
If you're on a low income it's easier to find the cash for one drink after than have to stump up for drinks throughout the meeting and after.
Also, there was a local pub/hotel that was more like a cafe where you could have coffee, etc, where we used to meet. Also just had some meetings at each other's houses, though not the public ones, obviously.
There's a serious issue here about whether or not this is indicative of the decline in people participating in civil society (Robert Putnam's book Bowling Alone is a worthwhile read on this) ie there's less public meeting places cos there's less demand for public meetings of all kinds, political or otherwise, or whether or not the internet has made routine face-to-face meetings like the ones commonplace on the far left redundant. That people are still getting involved in debates but online, not in person. Why participate in a choreographed meeting run by distant and shadowy forces when you can engage in a permanent conversation online for no effort in the comfort of your own home? Where you can drink and smoke without alienating anyone! Whilst wearing just your underwear, if you please. I bet there's people on this thread now who aren't even fully dressed and who are pissed/stoned and it's only 6:23pm! You can't get away with that a meeting.*
And if you're talking about pubs you could make a case for both of the above, not to mention the economic pressure of competition from nightclubs and cheap supermarket booze. Why go to the pub when you can get two bottles of wine for a tenner, go home to your empty lonely life, get smashed on your own whilst stalking your old school friends on facebook and drowning yourself in self-hatred?
* I once left a meeting early to pick up weed. I'm a very bad comrade.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
i agree completely.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll take a look.
Some people think that the rise of the internet is leading to a decline in face-to-face contact, but I'm not convinced. Even in the heyday of pubs there were a lot of people who rarely went to them. I think people in general are doing loads more stuff besides going to the pub now, like going to gyms, sports clubs and other activities.
Just a digression on the decline of pubs: when I was late teens/twenties, pubs were the main thing that we went out to, with an occasional visit to a nightclub or eatery after. Talking to my friends' son who is twenty, he says they don't go to pubs: they meet up at someone's house for drinks then go out clubbing from around 11 till 4 or 5. I think part of the decline of pubs is due to a change in tastes of young people and the rise of clubbing. I think young people were always what kept the pubs in business mainly.
KeeperofDragons
Crazy dragon lady
Never was in our meetings but as I was the only smoker at the time & if I fancied a puff I used to go outside so whether there was a edict from on high banning smoking at meetings was a moot point for our branch
ETA: Now if they'd have banned drinking at meetings there would have been a riot
discokermit
Well-Known Member
the smoking ban in meetings was the beginning of the end.
once we started capitulating to whiny fake asthmatics, with their insistent cough and martyr face within hundredths of a second of sparking up, there was no going back.
next came the ban on pubs. "but the alkies and teetotalers won't come...", don't these people go to fucking tesco? it's full of booze! "the unemployed won't want to come...", yeh right, like they ever got asked to put their hand in their pocket for beer.
the reality was that the ban on meeting in pubs happened because the party was being run by a bunch of joyless cunts who just wanted to suck the fun out of everything. that's why they stopped skegness for some wanky ally pally rally.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Good stuff!
In all seriousness there is a place for pub meetings, but in the main they only suit a small number of people...and funnily it's exactly those people who have dominated, and fucked up, the Left for the last couple of decades.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
Never was in our meetings but as I was the only smoker at the time & if I fancied a puff I used to go outside so whether there was a edict from on high banning smoking at meetings was a moot point for our branch
ETA: Now if they'd have banned drinking at meetings there would have been a riot
Drinking was banned at some of the branch meetings I went to, so that two young Muslim women could attend. There was not a riot.
This was well before the Respect project.
KeeperofDragons
Crazy dragon lady
I was talking about my branch - no one on high is going to take our drink from us without a bloody huge fightDrinking was banned at some of the branch meetings I went to, so that two young Muslim women could attend. There was not a riot.
The bizarre thing about banning drinking so as not to offend Muslims is that most that I know couldn't give a monkeys they just have a coke or juice, the exchange of ideas is more important.
Of course, no muslims ever go to pubs. Ever. It's haram to set foot inside one. Or to be in the same room as alcohol. And if you're a Muslim who had the misfortune to be born and raised in Britain clearly drinking is something utterly and totally alien and offensive to you.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
when they told you they couldn't come because of the alcohol they were just being polite.Drinking was banned at some of the branch meetings I went to, so that two young Muslim women could attend. There was not a riot.
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