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SWP expulsions and squabbles

Think I try to address most points. On the current subject I'm clearly not the only one to feel you've let your argument take you a little too far down the moral guardian path. But hey ho.

I'm not neutral about the demise of the SWP you're right. I think it would be a bad thing. But I don't have any personal stake in the outcome and don't have anyone to answer to, other than lapsed Catholic-Trot guilt of course.

I don't mind if you label me a moral guardian, just do it honestly :)

On balance I think the SWP has probably done more harm than good over the years, can't say I'd be too unhappy about its demise. I think your personal stake is, as you say, an increased level of guilt. From that point of view I think you should re-join. The leadership of the SWP, and Comrade Delta in particular, would welcome you back with open arms at this time. With a catholic-trot guilt I can't decide whether on re-joining you should burst in to song with Oh come all ye faithful or So comrades, come rally, and the last fight let us face. Given the way things are going I suspect the second would be better.
 
If a 20 year old was to have a relationship with a 51 yr old then so what? Ain't what I'd want (writing as a 46 yr old bloke) but that's my personal morals/likings but I have no right to judge others as it non of my business.
But in my opinion this is very very different to a 48 yr old with a 17 yr old who's only been out of school 6 months or so and has spent the vast majority of their life (bar a few months) pretty much being told what to do by adults (ie guardians and teachers etc.)
The power dynamic is so loaded in favour of the 48 yr old that I find it hard to believe that such a relationship could be equal.
When you add in that the 48yr old was in a position of authority in an organisation that the 17 yr old was a member of it increases this inequitity.

This has been born out by the 17 yr olds complaint a couple of years ago and her more recent complaint.

As for the SWP's investigation ... I would have thought that his behaviour (which led to the originalcomplaint) was grounds enough for removing him from the CC and suspending him from the party.
And as for the rape complaint it beggars belief that they felt equipped to deal with it. He should of been suspended and the complainant should have been offered support to seek advice etc. from a counsellor and rape experts. They should have been clear that they were not able to investigate such a complaint.
What bothers me (as a person AND as an ex member - of 20 yrs) is that no one appeared to consider;
a) what the fuck were they going to do if they "found" him guilty? Expel him? (the same punishment given for setting up a permanent faction)
or
b) what the fuck would it look like to the woman if they "found" him innocent? (would it look like they were calling her a liar?)

But instead of thinking they held an "investigation" with a group of people including at least 5 who'd know him for years and some of whom had considered him a friend.

The entire CC should be got rid of for being blatantly fucking stupid at best and sexist, self interested, bureaurocratic, power hungry fuckers at worst.

I left 4 years ago as I go bored and disillusioned with all the in fighting and the increasing amount of time spent slagging off other socialists who the SWP deemed unworthy. That and the ego mad lunatics who turned on each other ... and then split.

This situation and the shit response has made me look back on all the thousands of pounds I collected in work for the UAF/ANL; For strikers; for countless campaigns and for SW itself as being tainted. I never thought I was better than anyone but I thought I was doing something worth while...I don't regret supporting strikers and campaigns but I do regret be a representative for the SWP. I feel a bit dirtied by it all.
 
Just in a pub in And a load of swap turned up. They'd just been at an aggregate, but there were Loyalists and oppositionists drinking together in a very friendly fashion, if anyones interested.
 
This week Sheffield Unison sent out a mailing urging members to give in on the latest fight against council changes to pay and T&C's. Did they want to discuss this at their monthly meeting? Or to discuss any ongoing campaigning against cuts? No, they wanted to discuss a motion demanding the left caucus in the branch denounce the SWP's treatment of a complaint of rape, as 'our women members' take sexual violence very seriously (article from Workers Power attached as 'background, not from the bourgeois press.'
 
My response made more sense in my head, somehow.

Anyone could have had a word with MS, that's not the issue. There will always be inertia with stuff like this, because all the sordid details are not exactly out in the open, are they?

I was involved briefly in a small activist group with staff and students on a campus. There was no more than a handful of us. And we did conscious raising stuff around cuts, and tried to imbue some kind of politics in a campus that has none. Six months in, one of the guys drops out and there are accusations abound that he is a serial sex pest.

Did I know prior to the accusation? There were hints; no women in our group, even though there were active leftists on campus, he was an intense guy and talked about inappropriate stuff sometimes, but its difficult to see how I, or anyone could pick this up prior to one of the victims speaking out.

We never saw him again to go over any of this, so he pereempted us.

With MS, I am not sure how common knowledge it was. Were they moving people about because of his behaviour? Was it a subject of jokes and commentary?

BTW welcome to the boards comrade spurski.

Thanks for the welcome ... have been looking at different boards but many I looked at were just spiteful so I chose this one.
I really hope this is not going to do a lot of damage to the left
 
This week Sheffield Unison sent out a mailing urging members to give in on the latest fight against council changes to pay and T&C's. Did they want to discuss this at their monthly meeting? Or to discuss any ongoing campaigning against cuts? No, they wanted to discuss a motion demanding the left caucus in the branch denounce the SWP's treatment of a complaint of rape, as 'our women members' take sexual violence very seriously (article from Workers Power attached as 'background, not from the bourgeois press.'

Not surprised. The UNISON bureaucrats will do anything to cover themselves and distract from what they are doing, or not doing should I say. Isn't Sheffield UNISON run by the region? If so I'm surprised they even allow monthly meetings.

Members at our place have just voted, in a mass meeting, for strike action against the threat to halve our sick pay entitlement from 6 to 3 months. I'm sure the SWP was a burning issue for members, but surprisingly no-one brought it up.
 
Thanks for the welcome ... have been looking at different boards but many I looked at were just spiteful so I chose this one.
I really hope this is not going to do a lot of damage to the left

Do you mind revealing which boards were the spiteful ones?
 
Do you mind revealing which boards were the spiteful ones?
To be honest I read through posts and saw posters from different organisations slagging each other off and never went back. They were like the Life of Brian....only without the humour!
I put socialist blog , socialist forum and socialist debate in google and just worked my way through.
I tried over a period of months on and off.
I've never understood the fascination of hating other socialists more than the right so I steered clear of most of what I came across.
 
To be honest I read through posts and saw posters from different organisations slagging each other off and never went back. They were like the Life of Brian....only without the humour!
I put socialist blog , socialist forum and socialist debate in google and just worked my way through.
I tried over a period of months on and off.
I've never understood the fascination of hating other socialists more than the right so I steered clear of most of what I came across.
Humour can be a bit rough and tough here, and there are long running feuds, and trolls and nudity, but it is a nicer brand of board.
 
Humour can be a bit rough and tough here, and there are long running feuds, and trolls and nudity, but it is a nicer brand of board.

I can handle humour and people taking the piss outta me (I have a teen daughter...a 10 year daughter and I'm a spurs fan so I've got a thick skin!) and at least there are plenty of items up for discussion
 
Not a single swappie round here now (where previously there was one reasonably thriving branch in small town): all gone to Counterfire, SP, or no org.
In 2001 we had a reasonably vibrant branch, which broke itself attempting to run an general election campaign. Even afterwards there were a dozen or so people around the SWP branch in reading.
On the idoop list I was pleased to see a reading name, yet very aware that for the past 8 years there has existed a branch of two people who haven't even been able to maintain a regular paper sale.
 
There is something inimical to Cliffism about this stretch of train line alright. A couple in Reading, not much more in Bristol and nothing at all in between the two here in Swindon. If we didn't have so much decent rugby round here I'd have committed suicide years ago.
 
Humour can be a bit rough and tough here, and there are long running feuds, and trolls and nudity, but it is a nicer brand of board.
It is in fairness. You do get the impression people actually listen to and ifluence each other. Which is miles ahead of anywhere else I've seen.
 
In 2001 we had a reasonably vibrant branch, which broke itself attempting to run an general election campaign. Even afterwards there were a dozen or so people around the SWP branch in reading.
On the idoop list I was pleased to see a reading name, yet very aware that for the past 8 years there has existed a branch of two people who haven't even been able to maintain a regular paper sale.

I've never seen a papersale in Reading.
 
Bit of both. SWP organisationally absent since the october/nov 2011 student stuff. Now just absent as individuals as well.

I'd suggest that the real blow was the whole Respect thing. After that, barring the odd exception, they've been hit by disaster after disaster each costing them dozens to hundreds of members. Left List, Bamberry, Counterfire, and now this.

Each split,it cost them, what, a couple of dozen active splitters. Plus probably the same again in people dropping out, plus probably the same again in people who had no intention of leaving but who found their branch/mates/people who they'd do stuff with gone thus rendering them inactive too.

Death spiral.

There's no way back now.

'Specially if they fuck off their last few remaining student bases.

Numbers wise, when the dust settles, it'll be interesting (well, for "enthusiasts" like ourselves) to see how they compare to the rest of the left. After the SP, who'll essentially, have the field to themselves, who are the next biggest groups? CPB? AWL? Respect? I dunno...anybody in the mid to high three figures region?
 
Just in a pub in And a load of swap turned up. They'd just been at an aggregate, but there were Loyalists and oppositionists drinking together in a very friendly fashion, if anyones interested.
They're drinking in pubs again then? A few years ago when they were in Respect mode they moved their meetings from pubs to community centres, coffee bars, and cafes so as not to offend people who didn't drink alcohol.
I thought it was a step backwards for the Left, and the beginning of the end for the swp! Most union activists and socialists I know like to have a couple of pints after a meeting.
 
I've never seen a papersale in Reading.
You won't have done, when we moved to reading in 1992, there was a small group of older, less active members. I restarted paper sales, and managed to pick up a few new people and tried various things to gain a wider audience, including a Friday night sale outside the railway station, but nothing really worked until the start of the SWPs involvement in the socialist alliance. We were able to draw to us the remnants of the much larger old slp branch as well as a number of others, though Julie watersons wizard wheeze of asking me to stand as candidate soured relations with the sp. ( and this was the difference in the SA period, suddenly relationships with others socialists mattered).
The election broke the branch, but we picked up the pieces and tried to carry on, then I was victimised at work and lost my job, the lack of support I received from the party, which was busy denigrating the SA experience was especially noticeable in comparison with the campaign in defence of Greg tucker which beat attempts of management to victimise him.
With me withdrawn the branch collapsed, and only began to revive with the march to war.
I reapplied myself, somewhat less enthusiastically, and we achieved some stuff, most noticeably the anti war march through reading on 31st October 2002-( the swpers at the stw head office really did not want to allow us a Halloween against the war march, as this would 'upset the Christians')
There were two triggers which decided me in leaving the SWP, the first was the arrival of a new comrade, who was a Egyptian doctor, and who immediately became the conduit for all information from the centre, and was it seemed seen as leader of the branch, even though he wouldn't do paper sales nor any public activity.

The second was the arrival of John Rees at our Halloween protest, after the parade of vicars and liberal peaceniks, having Rees on the speakers list was a coup for the doctor, and I looked forward to having the revolutionary position laid out. However, Rees proceeded to give a banal ' if we all stand together the government have to stop the war' liberal guff.
When the Egyptian doctor then turned up at a reading anti war group meeting declaring himself to be 'Berkshire Stop the War' an entirely fictitious group, to forbid us from standing candidates in the local elections.
He was politely ignored by the group, and when he attempted to impose party discipline on me was less politely rebuffed.
Since then I have known of only three paper sales in reading, two outside the station on a Friday night, and one, bizarrely, outside Riley's pool hall on the Oxford road. The purpose of this I have never been able to establish, though the hall has since closed down and is being turned into a church.
 
No swss, I think there never has been, when a student organiser came over to do a freshens fair, I did not even know how to get to the university!
When I went to university ther was a socialist group being started, I think inspired by sp members, but I kept clear, a cynical old sod like me probably isn't who they were looking for.
 
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