SWP expulsions and squabbles

[emanymton]

Any more sexy revelations?

Oh for fucks sake piss of. The SWP is in a mess over mishandling a rape allegation and you come out with shit like that? To you an allegation of rape against a CC member is just a sexy revelation?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

According to someone on another list who has generally been reliable on SWP related stuff, the Guardian is preparing a hit piece with new dirt involved.

 

[barney_pig]

" Developing a critique of the issue of privilege and whether men, white people or straight people benefit from social oppression"
Oh dear.

 

[redcogs]

According to someone on another list who has generally been reliable on SWP related stuff, the Guardian is preparing a hit piece with new dirt involved.

i know what it is!

The coppers have discovered an arms cache, including grenades, kalashnikovs (and this months issue of Nuts and Babes) under the Profs bed?

Imminent arrests are anticipated, but in an audacious counter action Delta has organised a mass solidarity picket of the Alex's central London Penthouse?

If you don't laugh you weep..

 

[emanymton]

According to someone on another list who has generally been reliable on SWP related stuff, the Guardian is preparing a hit piece with new dirt involved.

They may be reliable on SWP stuff, but how do they know what the guardian is up to? Any indication on what this 'new dirt' might be?

 

[DotCommunist]

i know what it is!

The coppers have discovered an arms cache, including grenades, kalashnikovs (and this months issue of Nuts and Babes) under the Profs bed?

Imminent arrests are anticipated, but in an audacious counter action Delta has organised a mass solidarity picket of the Alex's central London Penthouse?

If you don't laugh you weep..

always had him down as an Asian Babes and Razzle man tbh

 

[butchersapron]

Asian lads was delta's fav.

 

[DrRingDing]

According to someone on another list who has generally been reliable on SWP related stuff, the Guardian is preparing a hit piece with new dirt involved.

I wouldn't project so fiercely from Guardian hack sniffing around.

 

[redcogs]

always had him down as an Asian Babes and Razzle man tbh

As a particularly fine example of the advanced layer of the vanguard Party the Prof probably dips in to all sorts of dialectically appropriate erotica..

 

[butchersapron]

asian student babes

 

[TremulousTetra]

Oh for fucks sake piss of. The SWP is in a mess over mishandling a rape allegation and you come out with shit like that? To you an allegation of rape against a CC member is just a sexy revelation?

not to me, to you lot. Wanking and wanking over politically 'sexy' revelations.

To me, you lot are like the tabloid media reporting stuff for your OWN political titillation, rather than any interest for the woman involved.

 

[DotCommunist]

not to me, to you lot. Wanking and wanking over politically 'sexy' revelations.

To me, you lot are like the tabloid media reporting stuff for your OWN political titillation, rather than any interest for the woman involved.

a niche publication

 

[Nigel Irritable]

" Developing a critique of the issue of privilege and whether men, white people or straight people benefit from social oppression"
Oh dear.

Those motions are, I believe, from a rather odd character who has been through a bunch of left groups. I very much doubt if they reflect anything more than his own views.

More interesting is the "our strategy" document, which combines sensible tactical advice with a clear orientation towards reigning in the more radical oppositionists, narrowing the grounds of dispute, and avoiding a split when/if the CC beats them.

 

[barney_pig]

Is the guy who wrote these the same Graeme who used to be in the fourth in Leeds?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Faction meeting in ULU, London today. Loyalists turned away by a vote of 60-40. Which depending on how you look at the swp's defintion of how factions should comport themselves is either unconstitutional or not.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Let's be strictly accurate then. Once, three decades ago, Kieran Allen disagreed with the British CC about a war a very great distance away. This solitary "rebellion" has served as the sole evidence of his independence (and by extension the independence of the organisation he controls) over the thirty years since. In every dispute within the British SWP, or within the IST, Allen and his shifting cast of sidekicks have served as loyal camp followers of the British CC, even importing most of their get rich quick quick schemes. They are the least independent organisation in the IST, due to location, the regular stream of cadre who get sent over to help them out, and, Allen's supine posture.

I will eat my shoe if the Irish SWP passes their motion and takes a critical stance. I'll even let you pick the sauce. We both know that this wont happen.

You know what NI. For a trot you can be very apolitical, "a war a very great distance away" is not something an internationalist would normally feel comfortable saying. That debate was majorly important for the IS cause it defined how we related to subimperialisms and political Islam among other things. I know it didn't matter to the Militant one world socialist federation club but that says more about your tradition's lack of a politics on imperialism than ours.

What I've always found about you is - and no disrespect here as although I've never met you personally I reckon you're a decent head as we say in Dublin and your heart is in the right place as my Bennite mum would say - you are more interested in the gossip of politics and the minutiae of revolutionary organisations than the substance. You could probably tell me now how many Fourth International members there were in Iraq on the 1st of January 1990 but the politics of the era interests you far less. Never understood that I have to say.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

You know what NI. For a trot you can be very apolitical, "a war a very great distance away" is not something an internationalist would normally feel comfortable saying.

Don't be so fucking stupid, you disingenuous clown. There is a difference in urgency between a war your country is actively and directly involved in and a war on the far side of the world. This is a statement of the bleeding obvious, as you would understand if you weren't looking for some way to avoid engaging with what I said.

You implied that the Irish SWP was very independent of the British organisation. I pointed out that it was not and that you are still using a solitary disagreement from thirty years ago as if it was representative of the relationship. It isn't and you know it.

As for my interest in sectariana, how many posts do you have on this thread again?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Ah but I don't see the swp as a sectarian org

I'm playing a small(tiny actually) part in defending Britain's best far left party.

Less of the name calling though, I was nice to you :-(

 

[Hocus Eye.]

According to someone on another list who has generally been reliable on SWP related stuff, the Guardian is preparing a hit piece with new dirt involved.

It is solid evidence-based information like this with specific names dates and locations backed up with eyewitness accounts, documents and photographs that is the strength of this thread.

 

[Random]

Gulf war mk one wasn't thirty years ago. I assumed you meant Falklands

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Gulf war mk one wasn't thirty years ago. I assumed you meant Falklands

Iran Iraq war, 1980 - 1988.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Asian lads was delta's fav.

Just a wee bit beneath you.

 

[frogwoman]

" Developing a critique of the issue of privilege and whether men, white people or straight people benefit from social oppression"
Oh dear.

"white people"and "men" don't benefit as a whole from oppression ffs.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Back on topic, Anna Gluckstein had this to say tonight about the faction meeting at ULU earlier today:

"As you know I never do facebook, but today I feel compelled to. Today there was a faction meeting in central London. I went along with a couple of comrades and others and we were barred from entry! This was not only me, this was two CC members and two of our journalists. I had invited my mum to the meeting and then I had to tell her she wasn't allowed to come. I understand that there will be organisational points that the comrades in the faction may wish to discuss and we would have left at that point, but they were having a five hour meeting in which general political perspectives were to be discussed.
Chanie was very upset about this situation as we have never had closed political discussions from other members. We are all in the same organisation, how can this happen? where is the democracy in this?"

Some very harsh words for the organisers of the meeting from several loyalists followed.

 

[emanymton]

Are CC meetings open to any SWP member who fancies turning up?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Are CC meetings open to any SWP member who fancies turning up?

Course not. Not sure many swpers would argue they should be either.

 

[emanymton]

So the CC should be able at attend any meeting the factions members have to discus strategy but the members of the faction don't have the same right? I think they should have been allowed in but only as observers, but I don't think they have a very high horse to climb onto over the issue.

 

[redcogs]

Course not. Not sure many swpers would argue they should be either.

No doubt minutes of CC meetings are distributed, the membership obviously need to able to scrutinise decisions that might affect them?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

And minutes of the faction meeting are available where redcogs?

If the pro cc lot have a broader-than-the-cc-meeting about political perspectives then everyone should be welcome yes. As Anna said the technical meetings are private , cc meetings too.

 

[barney_pig]

So the CC should be able at attend any meeting the factions members have to discus strategy but the members of the faction don't have the same right? I think they should have been allowed in but only as observers, but I don't think they have a very high horse to climb onto over the issue.

If you read that account of the break up of the WRP I posted about earlier in the thread, the meeting of the WRP cc were accompanied by large numbers of WRP members who awaited reports from within the meeting centre.