SWP expulsions and squabbles

[emanymton]

The assumption as far as I can work out is: W is speaking, Delta will be speaking aswell, the verbal mauling Delta is likely to give W will be enough to put off any other woman from ever exposing a similar situation ever again, because implicit might be the feeling that it has to come to a Conference Battle instead of/in addition to the DC procedure.

It's a bit rich when the DC procedure was so dire in the first place.

Yes, exactly.

 

[butchersapron]

And that would have to be the same for both individuals. I will think on it. When I first read that bit in the transcript I was horrified, but I could not see anything good coming from them both making speeches to the conference.

Soft, can be turned

 

[sihhi]

And that would have to be the same for both individuals. I will think on it. When I first read that bit in the transcript I was horrified, but I could not see anything good coming from them both making speeches to the conference.

But you'd agree it's W's choice to make that judgement.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, exactly.

That is terrifying. Just that.

 

[emanymton]

Why should about 5 longtime mates of Delta but only 1 semi-strong advocate of W speak at that Conference? Who chaired the session? With what aims? Who decided the length of the session?
There's lots of stuff we don't know but many are still suspicious.

I am in no way defending the whole process. Although I thought the balance of speakers was about 50/50 maybe one more for the loyalist side as Candy got to introduce it. However the chair was in no way neutral and is in fact an out and out loyalist, in fact she disgusts me far more that any of the loyalist speakers.

 

[emanymton]

But you'd agree it's W's choice to make that judgement.

I would yes. If she was prepared to confront him at conferree then OK, that's her choice. But the SWP could not give her a platform while denying him one.

 

[sihhi]

I can't help but feel that you along with some others on here are working on the assumption that Delta is guilty, when in fact none of us are in a position to make that determination. All I know is that an allegation of rape was made against a CC member and that it appears that the investigation was handled very badly and I therefore have no faith in the result. I can not pass judgment on Delta as I do not know the details of the case nor do I think I have any rights to those details. In fact considering that the woman in question has apparently asked Newman to take the transcript down and he refused (where is the condemnation of Newman for that!) I cannot help feeling a little uncomfortable and voyeuristic as it is.

That's a real low blow. On the contrary, most here are working on the assumption that more sensible procedures and/or the wider feminist/pacifist/republican/Trotskyist pool of people should have been used precisely to grasp the truthmore accurately than this DC CC caricature.

 

[butchersapron]

I would yes. If she was prepared to confront him at conferree then OK, that's her choice. But the SWP could not give her a platform while denying him one.

A platform? You don't mean that do you? Look at this - 'a platform'. Someone making a rape claim being allowed or not a platform ?

Come home.

 

[emanymton]

Sorry, but I think an assumption of guilt is creeping into some posts.

 

[sihhi]

W could have spoken at the conference, but Delta communicate by means of a pre-written statement.
To avoid the Delta fireworks.

ETA: If that's what W desired, as far as her advocate said in the transcript, W did want to communicate at the conference.

 

[emanymton]

A platform? You don't mean that do you? Look at this - 'a platform'. Come home.

I was trying to void 'allowed to sepak' since that annoys you so.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Says he.

Yes, I definitely said that. There was really no need for you to point that out though. The username beside the post is enough for most people to work it out for themselves.

 

[emanymton]

W could have spoken at the conference, but Delta communicate by means of a pre-written statement.
To avoid the Delta fireworks.

That's a bloody good Idea, I was just starting to think along these lines.

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry, but I think an assumption of guilt is creeping into some posts.

Where and when.

Sorry all you like. Be serious.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a bloody good Idea, I was just starting to think along these lines.

Bur didn't happen, instead something bad happened - why?

 

[sihhi]

Bur didn't happen, instead something bad happened - why?

At several points in the DC investigation as well. Written statements from W were given to Delta in advance - to prepare a defence in good time with careful planning and consideration. Delta's points were put to W without advance warning as an inquisition My mind races to something like DC saying 'you're exaggerating what happened because w, x, y, z'

 

[emanymton]

Where and when.

Sorry all you like. Be serious.

Of the top of my head at least one poster has called the SWP CC 'rape deniers' I would say that relies on a pretty explicit assumption of guilt.

 

[butchersapron]

Of the top of my head at least one poster has called the SWP CC 'rape deniers' I would say that relies on a pretty explicit assumption of guilt.

You have barney ok , one poster, What else. Jesus, just look up to sihhi's reply to me. Do yourself a real big favour right now.

 

[butchersapron]

At several points in the DC investigation as well. Written statements from W were given to Delta in advance - to prepare a defence in good time with careful planning and consideration. Delta's points were put to W without advance warning as an inquisition My mind races to something like DC saying 'you're exaggerating what happened because w, x, y, z'

Yep, now how far any but they're comrades strech?

 

[sihhi]

Of the top of my head at least one poster has called the SWP CC 'rape deniers' I would say that relies on a pretty explicit assumption of guilty.

Given the circumstances it's fair to say deniers of adequate revolutionary (note - not bourgeois) justice for women in inferior positions in the party.

It makes the SWP look stupid - can SWP members really march with this kind of idea/slogan in their posters?

Can they criticise Joanna Lumley from a "materialist" position by including her in the list of dumb quotes of the week:

‘Don’t look like trash, don’t get drunk’
Joanna Lumley's “advice” to women on how not to be raped
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=30472
when this is the nub of the advice given by the DC questioning.

 

[emanymton]

You have barney ok , one poster, What else. Jesus, just look up to sihhi's reply to me. Do yourself a real big favour right now.

The post about Delta seeing W's statements in advance. Madness absolute madness to think that was in any way reasonable. And your right, (i think this is what you at getting at) I am getting all wrapped up in trying to be fair to the SWP CC on some details and losing sight of the bigger picture, they don't deserve it. Fuck um.

 

[butchersapron]

The post about Delta seeing W's statements in advance. Madness absolute madness to think that was in any way reasonable. And your right, (i think this is what you at getting at) I am getting all wrapped up in trying to be fair to the SWP CC on some details and losing sight of the bigger picture, they don't deserve it. Fuck um.

Fair does, i know it can take some to just go back and have another look, i know that it's easy to just jump over what i've said and what i've posted (hates swp = ignore)... but really at least have a look. You did, so good lad.

 

[DrRingDing]

There's some drunk spelling and punctuation going on.

 

[emanymton]

There's some drunk spelling and punctuation going on.

Nah, I'm always this shit with English.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

There's some drunk spelling and punctuation going on.

how are you getting on with unionising the Firebox workers anyway?

 

[DrRingDing]

how are you getting on with unionising the Firebox workers anyway?

Where did I say that yer cunt?

 

[SpineyNorman]

It's easy to see why you're so popular on here.

 

[DrRingDing]

It's easy to see why you're so popular on here.

Get back in your box SpinelessHerbert.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Where did I say that yer cunt?

Dousafavour, remember your PM to me after your lies on the Counterfire thread about rumblings among the coffeeshop workers?

 

[DrRingDing]

Dousafavour, remember your PM to me after your lies on the Counterfire thread about rumblings among the coffeeshop workers?

Er no lies you utter twat.