No. In Sussex if I remember correctly. Just back from boozer.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Brighton?
He didnt say. Just Sussex-but Brighton is probly ur best bet I wud imagine?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
But the faction itself accepts those decisions, their document says "We do not want to reopen or discuss the case". The Platform may want to do just that but the faction know that's not going to happen. But there is always the possibility of discussing how the dc should operate in future and implicitly if not explicitly agreeing that the process used for delta was flawed. The eternal optimist in me hopes that 'resolve recent debates' opens the door ever so slightly to that option. The cc certainly wasn't going to be more explicit than that a mere day after the faction was formed.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
yeah totally
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I'm starting to feel really sorry for that poor little fucker. None of this can be got rid of now it's on the net and the poor sod's gonna have to live with the shame for the rest of his life!
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Actually, he comes out of looking quite sweet in a useless sort of way.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
I think Paul Holborrow just criticised the prof for the 'be careful what you wish for' line. Unless I misread Paul's comment that single fact is the most amazing thing I've heard yet in this dispute.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I’d say there were strong although unsuccessful attempts at a cover-up from the transcript. The woman chairing the discussion (Karen) stressed they would not discuss the detail of what happened in the hearing. A couple of times she interrupted people who were trying to say how badly X had been treated.
Karen chairing stresses the guarantee of confidentiality that had been given, but W had actually apparently ‘frequently’ asked to be present at the conference session but was refused by the CC.
And …
And I think it was more than just ‘cock-up’
The person leaking the transcript said:
You say this is bringing out the pedant in you - so I'm even more surprised you don't recognise a cover-up.
Incidentally I’d wondered why he was called Comrade Delta – there had apparently been two other complaints, with Comrade Alpha and Comrade Beta (no mention of Comrade Gamma who I think must have been disappeared)
Since we are back on the cover up issue a quick reply to this. ETA maybe not that quick
I think we can both agree that the SWP leadership handled the case appallingly, and yes i think the charing was terrible at times. I think the handling of the case is damming enough as it is, in fact I think talking about a cover up harms the opposition as it moves the discussion away from the actually handling of the complaint and into a discussion of was there a cover up or not and I think the CC is in a much stronger position in this argument. Although I think when most of the opposition within the SWP talk of a cover up they are mainly referring to the original complaint from two years ago, but I know a lot less about that so don't feel able to comment much on it.
Regarding the points you make and events at the most recent conference I am going to defend the SWP CC to some extent. I might need to take a bath after.
First lets remember what the SWP delegates at confrere were voting on whether or not they felt the disputes committee had handled the case appropriately, they were not voting on the case itself. therefore there was no need for all the evidence to be presented to the conference, in fact in my opinion it is quite correct to keep the details private. Are you really suggesting that all the details should have been given to the 500 or so delegates? This is something they have inaccurately been accused of doing Of course the nature of the questioning should be know to the delegates but there is a pretty fine line here.
As for allowing her to attend the session at conference, she also asked to be allowed to speak. When I first read this I felt the same as you, but on reflection they may have been right here. If she had been allowed to attend then Delta would have to be given the same right and if she was allowed to speak he would have to be allowed to speak. I think it was a really really good decision for Delta not to be there, as for allowing them both to speak well that would have been a hell of a mess.
It is not true that members were not allowed to discus it after conference, all districts had report backs were it was discuses and of course most members will have been talking about it a great length.
As far as I am aware it was Andy Newman that came up with comrade Delta not the SWP
I can't help but feel that you along with some others on here are working on the assumption that Delta is guilty, when in fact none of us are in a position to make that determination. All I know is that an allegation of rape was made against a CC member and that it appears that the investigation was handled very badly and I therefore have no faith in the result. I can not pass judgment on Delta as I do not know the details of the case nor do I think I have any rights to those details. In fact considering that the woman in question has apparently asked Newman to take the transcript down and he refused (where is the condemnation of Newman for that!) I cannot help feeling a little uncomfortable and voyeuristic as it is.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I have read so much in various places that I can't remember nnow. I think it might have been Lenin's tomb. I will see if I can find it. I think it might also have come up on Socialist unity but the original thread there seems to have vanished. I should say that i don't remember Newman ever confirming thsis so it may not be true.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
**
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Listen to yourself:
Listen.
emynantuon said:
Listen.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Do you think they could have allowed her to be present and/or speak but not give the same rights to him?
Do you think it would have been a good thing for them both to be there /allowed to speak?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Listen - "allowed" jesus christ.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's the ex-poster flimsier. He can get to fuck.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
OK not sure i get you. It's not up to the SWP to allow her anything??
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How do you "allow" stuff? What chain of assumptions need be in place to legitimately be allowed to not "allow" someone to testify on their own experience? This is just mad, you should be ashamed of yourself. Look at what you've said.
SpineyNorman
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sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
SLK is flimsier
I don't know what to say.On this point emy brought up
"The day after conference, the transcript of the Disputes Committee session was leaked to a sectarian website. Whoever was responsible has attempted to use this affair, which I view as a botched rape investigation, for political gain. This is reprehensible (and indeed despite requests from Comrade W, Andy Newman, who runs said sectarian blog, refused to remove the transcript from his blog). This marked what those of us involved in the Facebook conversation had feared and had worked to avoid – the matter not being dealt with adequately at conference and then being leaked into the public domain."
I'm not sure how it changes the situation substantially and the SWP DC culpability for botching the investigation on lines already discussed.
Why should about 5 longtime mates of Delta but only 1 semi-strong advocate of W speak at that Conference? Who chaired the session? With what aims? Who decided the length of the session?
There's lots of stuff we don't know but many are still suspicious.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Old school stuff, will be sorted elsewhere shortly. Apols for having to start it on this thread.WTF
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
Says he.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
The assumption as far as I can work out is: W is speaking, Delta will be speaking aswell, the verbal mauling Delta is likely to give W will be enough to put off any other woman from ever exposing a similar situation ever again, because implicit might be the feeling that it has to come to a Conference Battle instead of/in addition to the DC procedure.
It's a bit rich when the DC procedure was so dire in the first place.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
And that would have to be the same for both individuals. I will think on it. When I first read that bit in the transcript I was horrified, but I could not see anything good coming from them both making speeches to the conference.
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