Yes could be a way out for the majority on all three sides
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
Yes could be a way out for the majority on all three sides
There must be huge tensions within Party branches around this crisis? The hacks who have been holding the CC's line will have been subject to a good deal of unwelcome questioning - commensurate to the amount of information and criticism that the ordinary membership has received during their real world and www experience/s. i spoke with a member last weekend who was almost completely ignorant of the main contentious issues ( despite having had a soft soap debriefing from a 'trusted' comrade), but she was devastated by the attacks from Gob Cohen and the Daily Wail..
Who can imagine how matters might develop now? If individuals from ostensibly 'loyalist' branches join the faction and /or platform won't the CC's bully tendency move to nullify them? It all sounds to have the potential for collapsing into deeply unpleasant score settling catastrophe. i'd wager there is plenty of 'cowardly flinching' and behind the scene cyborg muscle flexing in the mix.
Who can imagine how matters might develop now? If individuals from ostensibly 'loyalist' branches join the faction and /or platform won't the CC's bully tendency move to nullify them? It all sounds to have the potential for collapsing into deeply unpleasant score settling catastrophe. i'd wager there is plenty of 'cowardly flinching' and behind the scene cyborg muscle flexing in the mix.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Brilliant, that's it in a nutshell.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How could they deliver on the second?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
And you were doing so well until then...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
one out of two ain't a bad start
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
is it just me or do other people imagine proletarian democracy man going 'sold! to the comrade in the corner!'?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
By not opposing his expulsion.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
One way we will know if they accept them lot in and accept them in as a platform. If they do, it's not as you say, if they don't it's all bets off i think.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Dusty tomes under the hammer
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
funnily enough that was originally the logo of the Amalgamated Society of Auctioneers and Auctioneer's Lads
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Is that from the first Freedom bookshop firebombing back in 1889?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's some of the unsold copies of the first edition of kropotkin's 'mutual aid' in 2011, taken with a digital camera in sepia
audiotech
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The sniggering heard in the background of the first of this series of CPGB podcasts gave a flavour of what was to come. Reminded me of here.
Edit: Were you there with your witty one-liners?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that's not just any sniggering, that's *m&s* sniggeringSniggering at the back of the lecture hallLittle bit calumny
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So let me get this right, you were listening to these things that you had a pop at others for listening to? We really weren't listening.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
i think the idea of the smith/seymour thing is pure fantasy. how is that going to happen now? how would that ever work?
whether the faction being set up is good or not, depends on the strength of the harder element of the opposition. tactically, it's fantastic. witness bolshieboy, the hacks have had the rug pulled completely from under their feet. strategically, i'm not so sure.
whether the faction being set up is good or not, depends on the strength of the harder element of the opposition. tactically, it's fantastic. witness bolshieboy, the hacks have had the rug pulled completely from under their feet. strategically, i'm not so sure.
audiotech
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I once had to drag one of the signees of the latest document away from a silly altercation he decided to have with a copper on a city centre Saturday sale. He seems to have been an adventurist student forever. Another of the signees and a one time researcher for Arthur Scargill went on to work for RJB Mining (bought most of the pits after the strike) on a huge salary apparently and have ever since little in the way of respect for that one. Colin Barker I have some time for.
audiotech
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No, I was drawing the attention to the probability of those saying they didn't listen actually did listen.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You've established this probability have you? By what? Oh god.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
fucking give it up you dull twat
audiotech
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Yes, you got it, from years of reading bull-shit.
Sean Delaney
Electric Prune
What is really shocking is the amount of SWP members who are carrying on as if nothing bad is happening...they seem to be waiting for this nasty stuff to go away. This week's 'meetings and events' page in SW is all 'business as usual.' I quite admire that in one way - a rockhard approach - 'keep calm and carry on' and all that jazz...but on the other hand, we are talking about the future of the party, and lets be honest, everyone outside of the dedicated band of loyalists ("We few, we happy few") know exactly what kind of scale of a disaster this is: it is a great yawning chasm of a Grand Canyon type disaster.
But then look again at the meetings and events page in SW this week - the range and breadth of discussions the SWP want to have this week up and down the country is pretty awe inspiring. Be honest: they do try to be what they say they are, a revolutionary party of dedicated professional revolutionaries. You have to hand it to them - this is the only organisation nationally -- even, maybe internationally -- that has the capacity to bring ideas like this to a mass audience (shame that 'mass audience' aren't in the slightest bit interested)
I have major disagreements with what the SWP thinks constitutes 'revolution', major disagreements as to what they think might constitute 'capitalism' even. The SPD was the model for Lenin's Bolsheviks - the Soviet 'Thermidorian reaction' ushered in a period where 'turning necessity into a virtue' became the norm for the Bolsheviks, and the SWP/Trotskyism was too eager to assess this epoch uncritically. Essentially, Cliff's theoretical contribution from the 1950s has never had to go through a renaissance - until -- maybe -- now. Perhaps revolutionary politics is now about to embark on a new journey - a re-evaluation of what we mean by 'revolution' and what needs to be done to make it happen.
The general parameters of 'debate' that we have been subject to from the SWP opposition has been pretty damn appalling. The root and branch issues of what revolutionaries mean by 'revolution' have not been addressed. The 'oppositionists' have restricted themselves to a discussion on 'content', assuming that the aspect of the 'form' itself is fine. On this all sides of the SWP agree!
But people like Moishe Postone and Gaspar Tamas in Hungary have done a lot of spadework on 'the form' problem of revolution already, and have set out some parameters for others to contribute to, and as Gaspar Tamas said recently, while 'the head' or 'brain' of Marxian philosophy/critical theory is huge, the physical 'body' of praxis/real movement is extremely puny! The avananche of 'critical/Marxian theory' is formidable, but, just for what it is worth, someone else raising important problems/debates in the 'Anglosphere' is one of the signatories to a 'dissident' open letter - Alberto Toscano. He is one of the very few people out there who is broaching the very prescient problem of 'real abstraction' which can be read here.
Something has to give.
The funny thing is, meanwhile, in the outside world, the economy is heading for a complete collapse. Problems are welling up that is going to make all this blather seem like a chimp's tea party real soon.
But then look again at the meetings and events page in SW this week - the range and breadth of discussions the SWP want to have this week up and down the country is pretty awe inspiring. Be honest: they do try to be what they say they are, a revolutionary party of dedicated professional revolutionaries. You have to hand it to them - this is the only organisation nationally -- even, maybe internationally -- that has the capacity to bring ideas like this to a mass audience (shame that 'mass audience' aren't in the slightest bit interested)
I have major disagreements with what the SWP thinks constitutes 'revolution', major disagreements as to what they think might constitute 'capitalism' even. The SPD was the model for Lenin's Bolsheviks - the Soviet 'Thermidorian reaction' ushered in a period where 'turning necessity into a virtue' became the norm for the Bolsheviks, and the SWP/Trotskyism was too eager to assess this epoch uncritically. Essentially, Cliff's theoretical contribution from the 1950s has never had to go through a renaissance - until -- maybe -- now. Perhaps revolutionary politics is now about to embark on a new journey - a re-evaluation of what we mean by 'revolution' and what needs to be done to make it happen.
The general parameters of 'debate' that we have been subject to from the SWP opposition has been pretty damn appalling. The root and branch issues of what revolutionaries mean by 'revolution' have not been addressed. The 'oppositionists' have restricted themselves to a discussion on 'content', assuming that the aspect of the 'form' itself is fine. On this all sides of the SWP agree!
But people like Moishe Postone and Gaspar Tamas in Hungary have done a lot of spadework on 'the form' problem of revolution already, and have set out some parameters for others to contribute to, and as Gaspar Tamas said recently, while 'the head' or 'brain' of Marxian philosophy/critical theory is huge, the physical 'body' of praxis/real movement is extremely puny! The avananche of 'critical/Marxian theory' is formidable, but, just for what it is worth, someone else raising important problems/debates in the 'Anglosphere' is one of the signatories to a 'dissident' open letter - Alberto Toscano. He is one of the very few people out there who is broaching the very prescient problem of 'real abstraction' which can be read here.
Something has to give.
The funny thing is, meanwhile, in the outside world, the economy is heading for a complete collapse. Problems are welling up that is going to make all this blather seem like a chimp's tea party real soon.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Has he completed one complete circuit of the British left and started a second one? There must be an easier way to collect party membership cards, if that's your thing. Maybe a polite letter?
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