SWP expulsions and squabbles

[DotCommunist]

Ho, ho, ho. Some good lines in this.

sales would increase tenfold if China did start writing sci fi for the Socialist Worker

 

[SLK]

OMFG - A Swappie docudrama/musical resignation - is this black propaganda by the CC?

That's brilliant. I laughed so hard my daughter was going "what's wrong Daddy?"

https://twitter.com/JackBrindelli

 

[articul8]

Ooh, an official riposte to the Prof from the opposition:
http://internationalsocialismuk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/is-zinovievism-finished-reply-to-alex.html

 

[articul8]

The CC self-selects: it has an agreed political perspective; when someone dies or resigns it chooses as replacements comrades who agree – or who are thought to agree – with that perspective; at no point is the chain ever broken by open political debate. And if the perspective is wrong? The problems extend to the membership of the CC. What are the requirements of a potential CC member? There are apparently two: that they should live in or around London and that – with a handful of exceptions – they are full-time employees of the party. So - the comrades who are eligible for membership of the CC are those who until their selection have been paid to carry out the decisions of the previous CC and who, because they tend to have been students beforehand, rarely have any direct experience of the class struggle. How can a leadership this narrow be capable of forming an accurate perspective?

 

[butchersapron]

Ooh, an official riposte to the Prof from the opposition:
http://internationalsocialismuk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/is-zinovievism-finished-reply-to-alex.html

Oh god, proper leninism.

 

[articul8]

Leninism hasn't been tried (apparently)

 

[butchersapron]

Leninism hasn't been tried (apparently)

Do you think Syrizia looks a little bit like proper bolshevism?

 

[Pickman's model]

Leninism hasn't been tried (apparently)

It has been tried, & convicted

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you think Syrizia looks a little bit like proper bolshevism?

articul8 wouldn't know proper bolshevism if it whisked him away to dig the white sea canal

 

[Delroy Booth]

There's no politics going on in those articles, it's just Lenin fetish, wrapped up in jargon and navel-gazing. Forget about fucking Lenin, or the IS tradition, and actually base your activities on what's going on with the class right now, in these circumstances. They need to get out of this straightjacket.

 

[articul8]

articul8 wouldn't know proper bolshevism if it whisked him away to dig the white sea canal

not sure if that's criticism or praise? In any case I don't think Syiza is adequately explained/dismissed with concepts like "left reformist", "centrist" or "sub-Leninist".

and I'm not holding up Syriza as "the model" for success - it could well be the Syriza falls apart in acrimony and recrimination.

 

[DaveCinzano]

They need to get out of this straightjacket.

Fuck the cisnormatives

 

[DaveCinzano]

..."sub-Leninist"...

 

[butchersapron]

not sure if that's criticism or praise? In any case I don't think Syiza is adequately explained/dismissed with concepts like "left reformist", "centrist" or "sub-Leninist".

and I'm not holding up Syriza as "the model" for success - it could well be the Syriza falls apart in acrimony and recrimination.

You think that it might be praise?

 

[articul8]

I'm sure it's not intended as such

 

[butchersapron]

not sure if that's criticism or praise?

I'm sure it's not intended as such

What are you really (secretly) sure/not sure of?

 

[articul8]

it might - objectively - be praiseworthy.

 

[butchersapron]

it might - objectively - be praiseworthy.

You are now discussing whether you are objectively praiseworthy. Well done articul8, well done.

 

[articul8]

What are you really (secretly) sure/not sure of?

interesting edit - secretly?

 

[butchersapron]

interesting edit - secretly?

In what way is your secrecy interesting to you?

 

[articul8]

our opaque relation to our own consciousness is endlessly fascinating - hence my interest in psychoanalysis

 

[butchersapron]

You mean yourself. Away and fan your endlessly fascinating self down the LRC.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Oh god, proper leninism.

They can't realistically cede "Leninism" to the CC, that would finish them. And they have the advantage that it's trivially easy to show that the party Lenin led was much more freewheeling, open and democratic than the SWP. It's an open goal, so they'll take advantage.

The piece is pretty good within its limits.

 

[butchersapron]

Can i just say, that in this weeks Socialist Worker there is an article on Hitler. There is, underneath a picture, the caption:

Adolf Hitler and his henchmen

I kid you not.

 

[articul8]

You mean yourself. Away and fan your endlessly fascinating self down the LRC.

interesting disavowal/displacement of your own narcissism

 

[sihhi]

not sure if that's criticism or praise? In any case I don't think Syiza is adequately explained/dismissed with concepts like "left reformist", "centrist" or "sub-Leninist".

and I'm not holding up Syriza as "the model" for success - it could well be the Syriza falls apart in acrimony and recrimination.

Don't you think we ought to consider the dangers (to working-class people in Greece) of SYRIZA standing firm and holding together?

 

[articul8]

Don't you think we ought to consider the dangers (to working-class people in Greece) of SYRIZA standing firm and holding together?

in what sense - as a united reformist bloc? I don't see it.

 

[barney_pig]

"Hitler sought support from all sides. This is evident in his party’s full name—the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. “National” and “German” appealed to the right wing, the middle and upper classes.

But “Socialist” and “Worker” were designed to attract the left and the working class.

Hitler succeeded in hoovering up almost all middle class votes but he failed with the workers.

The working class made up over half of the German population, but less than a third of those who joined the NSDAP were working class."
Putting socialist and worker in the name of your party is designed to attract the working class?
I wonder what proportion of working class members are in the SWP?

 

[butchersapron]

"Hitler sought support from all sides. This is evident in his party’s full name—the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. “National” and “German” appealed to the right wing, the middle and upper classes.

But “Socialist” and “Worker” were designed to attract the left and the working class.

Hitler succeeded in hoovering up almost all middle class votes but he failed with the workers.

The working class made up over half of the German population, but less than a third of those who joined the NSDAP were working class."
Putting socialist and worker in the name of your party is designed to attract the working class?
I wonder what proportion of working class members are in the SWP?

This:

MYTH 1: Hitler hypnotised his followers
The bile and lies pumped out by the Nazi party (NSDAP) under Goebbels’ direction barely changed from its foundation in 1920. It blamed Communists, foreigners and especially Jews for the woes of the “master race”.

is just outright wrong, and either derives from ignorance (in which case why are you writing the article?) or deliberate falsehood (in which case, why are you lying?).

 

[barney_pig]

"Their opposition ranged from playing illegal jazz music, to armed combat."
Comrade delta will be pleased