SWP expulsions and squabbles

[bolshiebhoy]

I think this is the attitude of many of the party hacks, sorry BB.

When I was a member my feelings were what's the point in arguing with other revolutionaries, let the be revolutionary in their own way. The important thing was to try and create more revolutionaries. Which i guess amounts to more or less the same in practice.

Yeah I get what you're saying and as much as I say I agree with the approach I wasn't very good at applying it. Don't think I ever called a Millie a centrist to their face or anything...but I bloody thought it

You're right it shouldn't be about arguing with other revolutionaries from other traditions but rather creating new ones. The thing is you still need to debate the other revolutionaries' ideas or else you're just storing up tears for later. Arguably the swp wouldn't be in this fight for existance now (if that's what it is) if they'd had more arguments with people they'd recruited about exactly what being a revolutionary means. If there is a 'socialist feminist' / autnomist breakaway happening (and I think there is) then it suggests someone should have trashed this stuff out earlier. The people who do that are normally the ones we all hated and called hacks but they do have a purpose in life!

 

[frogwoman]

iirc the SPGB are largely funded from inheritances from long-dead members, although this could also be complete bollocks.

 

[butchersapron]

iirc the SPGB are largely funded from inheritances from long-dead members, although this could also be complete bollocks.

It is.

(beat you darren!)

 

[emanymton]

Yeah it does. I've not seen the national breakdown but (for legitimate reasons) I have a good idea of who pays what in my branch. I have no reason to suspect it's any different elsewhere.

Likewise, While I never saw the Full accounts for the SWP, i did see full membership lists for 2 districts which included what level of subs were being paid.

 

[emanymton]

iirc the SPGB are largely funded from inheritances from long-dead members, although this could also be complete bollocks.

How do they tell the difference between them and the current members?

 

[discokermit]

I've suspended payments totally until I get a more reliable job/until the Socialist Party abandons Leninism embraces my idiosyncratic brand of Militant Bennism.

a bennite? in the millies? what the fuck is going on in the world?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

iirc the SPGB are largely funded from inheritances from long-dead members, although this could also be complete bollocks.

It wouldn't take very much to fund the SPGB's activity levels. I'd believe you if you told me that they were funded from one small boy's pocket money.

 

[dennisr]

Yeah it does. I've not seen the national breakdown but (for legitimate reasons) I have a good idea of who pays what in my branch. I have no reason to suspect it's any different elsewhere.

There was that moment when the finance full-timers hoped to hang up their boots when some vague comrade won the lottery - sadly they dropped out of revolutionary politics rather rapidly thereafter... kind of understandably - so the CWI and SP did not see any of the ill-gotten gains. (I'd would have made a good donation before feckin off of course)

 

[butchersapron]

The prof:

Through a series of leaks and briefings some ensured that a highly distorted account of the disciplinary case was circulated on the web and taken up by some of the mainstream media.

What of the leaked transcript was distorted? What briefings? From who to who? This sloppy shit will surely not do?

 

[TremulousTetra]

No, it wasn't, really.

Their motive in taking over the Socialist Alliance can be boiled down to a combination of a stupid misreading of the situation (they thought that the SA was on the cusp of the big time) and [delete] (they thought that what was holding the SA back from achieving that potential was the [delete] the wrong strategy).

Their later decision to wind up the SA was a fairly straightforward tying up of loose ends when they were moving on to Respect.

Yeah, can agree with that edited version of your comments.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I don't know what I am enjoying more. The Prof's article or the absolute fits it's producing in the Seymourites on fb and elsewhere. Finally, the empire strikes back.

 

[frogwoman]

Internal arguments makes it sound like they split over an arguement over what form of state capitalism the USSR was.

 

[emanymton]

iirc the SPGB are largely funded from inheritances from long-dead members, although this could also be complete bollocks.

Just as a matter interest I know that the SWP was able to buy their printshop originally as some member had a rich relative who died and left them a big inheritance and they donated all of it to the SWP/ The member then moved to Canada and no one ever heard from them again.

 

[Delroy Booth]

a bennite? in the millies? what the fuck is going on in the world?

Entryism comrade.

 

[dennisr]

Yeah, can agree with that edited version of your comments.

fuck off RMP3

 

[butchersapron]

One thing the entire business has reminded us of is the dark side of the Internet. Enormously liberating though the net is, it has long been known that it allows salacious gossip to be spread and perpetuated - unless the victim has the money and the lawyers to stop it. Unlike celebrities, small revolutionary organisations don't have these resources, and their principles stop them from trying to settle political arguments in the bourgeois courts.

So where and is the slander or libel that you are too principled to chase up?

 

[discokermit]

Entryism comrade.

a world turned upside down.

 

[emanymton]

The prof:



What of the leaked transcript was distorted? What briefings? From who to who? This sloppy shit will surely not do?

Yes I noticed that, as far as i know the accuracy of the transcript has never been disputed, so it what way is it distorted?

 

[frogwoman]

revolutionary discipline isn't what it used to be

 

[butchersapron]

All of this would be of interest solely to the SWP and its supporters, were it not for the political conclusions that are being drawn

All noses now justified. Jesus, this is the brains of the operation.

 

[butchersapron]

If the SWP didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent it.

No it wouldn't.

 

[cesare]

So where and is the slander or libel that you are too principled to chase up?

"Bourgeois courts" again.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes I noticed that, as far as i know the accuracy of the transcript has never been disputed, so it what way is it distorted?

A small lie for a larger (potential) gain is bred in the bone.

 

[frogwoman]

What political conclusions? I thought this was about a case of alleged rape not "internal arguments" or "political conclusions".

 

[bolshiebhoy]

The most enjoyable thing about the article in itself is how he totally refuses to even name Seymour and explains why: "a few individuals, some well known, others not, have used blogs and social media to launch a campaign within the SWP. Yet they themselves, for all their hotly proclaimed love of democracy, are accountable to no one for these actions. They offer an unappetising lesson in what happens when power is exercised without responsibility." Nailed on.

 

[imposs1904]

How do they tell the difference between them and the current members?

harsh but funny

eta: Does Pete Cook's estate gets royalties on that joke?

 

[emanymton]

If i was to write a letter into SW/SR I wonder what the odds are it would be published?

 

[emanymton]

harsh but funny

eta: Does Pete Cook's estate gets royalties on that joke?

No that's an emanymton original that is.

 

[imposs1904]

It wouldn't take very much to fund the SPGB's activity levels. I'd believe you if you told me that they were funded from one small boy's pocket money.

and yet leading SP(EW) member Steve Nally only got 40 plus votes more than the SPGB candidate in that recent local election. I wish I had that small boy's pocket money.

 

[butchersapron]

The most enjoyable thing about the article in itself is how he totally refuses to even name Seymour and explains why: "a few individuals, some well known, others not, have used blogs and social media to launch a campaign within the SWP. Yet they themselves, for all their hotly proclaimed love of democracy, are accountable to no one for these actions. They offer an unappetising lesson in what happens when power is exercised without responsibility." Nailed on.

Yes, Seymour is running rampant, arrogating powers of the state to himself imagining that he is a workers tribunal fully and properly formed.