Sweden and coronavirus

[Ahlan]

You seem a bit fixated on population density. One of the most densely populated megacities in the world, Seoul, managed to contain then quash an outbreak of covid19. It's far from the only consideration here.

Most Swedes - 85% - live in towns or cities, a very similar figure to the rest of Europe. As for Stockholm's deaths, I don't know - I only saw the figure for cases, which you can find if you track the links through Worldometer to get to Sweden's health service page. It was a little under half, something like 8,000 out of 19,000. A figure of around 1,000 deaths per million for a city that is an infection hotspot isn't off the scale, though. It's about the same as the whole of New York State currently. The figure for London hospitals at the moment is 5,000, add at least 1,000 to that with care homes included (which is included in Stockholm's figures), so not far off 1,000 per million. Go to NHS England website for those figures.

There are lots of issues with comparisons where you can end up not comparing like with like. Comparisons between cities in which the virus was allowed to spread uncontrolled for a significant period before any kind of countermeasures were taken, like London, NYC and Stockholm, are perhaps better than many other comparisons. And not so surprisingly, they turn up similar kinds of figures.

ETA: My point anyway was to do with the overall population density of any given country not being that relevant, in fact being something that can lead you down the wrong path if you're not careful with it.

I'm not fixated about it, just baffled why you want to dismiss it as a major factor.
Following the 2 meter rule, it's got to be much easier for an elk farmer living and working in the bumfuck middle of nowhere to avoid contact with an infected person than someone living in downtown Manhatten.
So given the obvious advantages of having a low population density that Sweden has, they've clearly done a remarkable job of getting this so wrong, no?

Edit: the 85% urban pop stat bolsters the arguement that population density is a key factor, seeing as Swedens clustsers of urban populations (Stockholm in this case) are goegraphically much, much further apart compared to other cities in the world with such high Covid death numbers.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is this only hospital deaths?

No. Swedish figures include care home deaths.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not fixated about it, just baffled why you want to dismiss it as a major factor.
Following the 2 meter rule, it's got to be much easier for an elk farmer living and working in the bumfuck middle of nowhere to avoid contact with an infected person than someone living in downtown Manhatten.
So given the obvious advantages of having a low population density that Sweden has, they've clearly done a remarkable job of getting this so wrong no?

Right, last time. Did you just glaze over the place where I said that 85% of Swedes live in urban areas?

 

[editor]

Right, last time. Did you just glaze over the place where I said that 85% of Swedes live in urban areas?

It's even higher than that:

At the end of 2018, 87 percent of Sweden's population lived in an urban area. This share is unchanged from 2015. An urban area has at least 200 inhabitants, according to the Swedish definition, which means that urban areas comprise the largest cities, as well as small areas with just over 200 inhabitants

There are 8.9 million inhabitants in urban areas

At the end of 2018, 87 percent of Sweden’s population lived in an urban area. This share is unchanged from 2015. An urban area has at least 200 inhabitants, according to the Swedish definition, which means that...

www.scb.se

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They're not all elk farmers working in the bumfuck of nowhere?

 

[Ahlan]

They're not all elk farmers working in the bumfuck of nowhere?

That's the point. The 15% of elk farmers in Sweden are nothing like the 15% of farmers in the uk, that are much closer to a sizable town that has commuters to the next big metropole.
Basic stuff.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You have a point?

 

[Ahlan]

You have a point?

Yes! You argued that the Swedish figures don't make them stand out against Belgium and the UK in comparison to other Scandinavian countries.
I think you're wrong to ignore the population density factor in that comparison. It's a massive factor that gives their statistics a more accurate context.

reminder: Stockholm has 1406 death/M pop (Sweden only 256)

Edit: now seen your edit: but still think you're wrong. Stockholm's off the scale - and that in a season when it's >20hrs a day dark and nobody goes there. Even a large proportion of Svenies are abroad

 

[Ahlan]

Right, last time. Did you just glaze over the place where I said that 85% of Swedes live in urban areas?

what does that mean?
the UK has 82%. But in the UK those towns and cities are soooooo much closer together.
You have a point?

 

[deeyo]

Thanks MrCurry
Worse than suspected : 1406 Avlidna in Stockholm

Thats the body count for greater stockholm, though - 'region stockholm' - pop 2.377 millions. Population in the country, counties and municipalities on 31 December 2019 and Population Change in 2019

 

[MrCurry]

A not very complimentary piece in the Guardian today. Not sure how I feel about it tbh. Although carefully peppered with references to support the points being made, I can’t help feeling the author has woven their tale to make the situation look as bad as possible. Let’s just say I hope it’s not that bad.

Has Sweden's coronavirus strategy played into the hands of nationalists? | Gina Gustavsson

Talk of Swedish exceptionalism has echoes of the forces unleashed in Britain by Brexit, says Swedish academic Gina Gustavsson

www.theguardian.com

 

[editor]

Seems weird in seeing society functioning as normal

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think things in Sweden are really functioning as normal tbh.

 

[editor]

I don't think things in Sweden are really functioning as normal tbh.

Did you watch that clip? Things sure look close to normal to me. Cafes, bars, shops, street markets, hairdressers all open...

 

[frogwoman]

Did you watch that clip? Things sure look close to normal to me. Cafes, bars, shops, street markets, hairdressers all open...

There's a clip? I can't see it properly.

 

[editor]

There's a clip? I can't see it properly.

Click on the pic in my post above - it might take a while to get going,.

 

[frogwoman]

Osmittade IVA-patienter fick vård i sal för corona: ”Fruktansvärd etisk stress”

Minst två patienter som inte bekräftats smittade av covid-19 har vårdats på intensivvårdsavdelningen på Mölndals sjukhus, i samma sal som patienter med bekräftad smitta.

omni.se

Covid and non covid patients are apparently being treated in the same room

 

[editor]

Not looking good:

Swedish gyms, schools, restaurants and shops have all remained open throughout the spread of the pandemic. The strategy has so far helped shield the economy from the worst, but Sweden’s death rate is about 32 per 100,000, compared with 24 in the U.S. and roughly 9 in neighboring Denmark.

Sweden Adjusts Controversial Covid Plan After Care Homes Crisis

Sweden will adjust a key corner of its strategy for dealing with Covid-19, after the death rate at care homes spiraled out of control.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

They have reported 147 deaths today, that's their fourth largest daily number, the other 3 being between 15th & 22nd April.

Deaths per million now 343, which doesn't compare well with their neighbours - Denmark 92, Finland 51 & Norway 42.

 

[2hats]

They have reported 147 deaths today, that's their fourth largest daily number, the other 3 being between 15th & 22nd April.

Deaths per million now 343, which doesn't compare well with their neighbours - Denmark 92, Finland 51 & Norway 42.

And Denmark has over five times the population density of the other three, which are all comparable.
(134[DK]>>[23[SE]|17[FI]|17[NO]])

 

[Saul Goodman]

They have reported 147 deaths today, that's their fourth largest daily number, the other 3 being between 15th & 22nd April.

Deaths per million now 343, which doesn't compare well with their neighbours - Denmark 92, Finland 51 & Norway 42.

Ireland isn't doing too great on deaths per million, either. And we went into lockdown quite early.

 

[frogwoman]

Wtf lol. Sorry for the twitter post but these headlines are nuts.

 

[bmd]

Some Tory dickhead was allowed to waffle on, without interruption or challenge, during a R4 half hour dedicated solely to his opinions. He talked absolute bollocks for 30 minutes, basically saying that lockdown was a pointless waste of time because the virus only affected the elderly and that Sweden is fine and it hasn't locked down at all. The person who worked for the BBC that was also there said nothing to challenge his opinions.

 

[quimcunx]

Not looking good:

Sweden Adjusts Controversial Covid Plan After Care Homes Crisis

Sweden will adjust a key corner of its strategy for dealing with Covid-19, after the death rate at care homes spiraled out of control.

www.bloomberg.com

Thing is if you're going to do this so your economy can keep going and therefore presumably save you money the least you can do is spend a bit of that saved money on properly protecting your residents and staff in care homes.

 

[elbows]

Coronavirus: What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?

Swedish healthcare is under scrutiny over the high rate of Covid-19 deaths in care homes.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now, increasing numbers of workers are also coming forward to criticise regional healthcare authorities for protocols which they say discourage care home workers from sending residents into hospital, and prevent care home and nursing staff from administering oxygen without a doctor's approval, either as part of acute or palliative (end-of-life) services.

"They told us that we shouldn't send anyone to the hospital, even if they may be 65 and have many years to live. We were told not to send them in," says Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse who worked in several care homes around Gävle, north of Stockholm, at the beginning of the pandemic.

"Some can have a lot of years left to live with loved ones, but they don't have the chance... because they never make it to the hospital," she says. "They suffocate to death. And it's a lot of panic and it's very hard to just stand by and watch."

Ms Löfvenberg is now working on a Covid-19 ward in a major hospital in the Swedish capital, where she says the demographic of patients she's treating is further evidence that the elderly are being kept away. "We don't have many older people. It's a lot of younger people born in the 90s, 80s, 70s."

A paramedic working in Stockholm, who wanted to remain anonymous, told the BBC she had not had a single call-out to an elderly care home connected to Covid-19, despite putting in overtime during the crisis.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This article is worth a read...

Sweden stands out in many ways. It has one of the lowest population densities in the world, a low level of multigenerational mixing, it borders only other countries with low population densities and it includes no international hub such as coronavirus hotspots Brussels, New York and London. It follows that when comparing absolute numbers Sweden can only be meaningfully compared to its Nordic neighbours.

The outcome is then bleak. With now 3698 dead, the death toll is well over 3 times higher than the combined death toll of Denmark (548), Norway (233) and Finland (300). When comparing deaths per million, Sweden last week surpassed even Europe’s most densely populated country, the Netherlands.

Let's not romanticise Sweden's ill-prepared and adrift coronavirus response

The UK has certainly not been insufficiently 'Swedish" in its handling of the pandemic. If anything, it has been too Swedish

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[editor]

This article is worth a read...

Let's not romanticise Sweden's ill-prepared and adrift coronavirus response

The UK has certainly not been insufficiently 'Swedish" in its handling of the pandemic. If anything, it has been too Swedish

www.telegraph.co.uk

I've had a handful of FB friends (most now defriended/on ignore) who kept going on and on that Sweden had got it right and the UK was acting like a fascist state/overreacting etc etc. Our government were absolutely fucking useless but thank fuck we did a (criminally belated) U turn on 'let's go for herd immunity' policy.

 

[editor]

I never thought I'd be saying this, but the FT has provided bloody excellent coverage of the coronavirus crisis

As of Wednesday, 3,831 people had died from Covid-19 in Sweden, a country with a population of 10m. Denmark, Finland and Norway — which each have about 5m inhabitants — have recorded death tolls of 551, 301 and 233, respectively. Swedish authorities argued that a lockdown and closed borders would bring relatively few benefits at a high cost to public health and the economy.

The FT tracker shows that Sweden had 6.4 deaths per million people 61 days after its death rate first climbed above 0.1 deaths per million. That contrasts with the UK’s 6.2 deaths per million at the same stage, Italy’s 5.5, and Spain’s 4.

Sweden’s death toll unnerves its Nordic neighbours | Free to read

Denmark, Finland and Norway look at maintaining travel restrictions even as they prepare to open up to others

www.ft.com

I wish other papers would follow suit:

The Financial Times is making key coronavirus coverage free to read to help everyone stay informed.

 

[weltweit]

I never thought I'd be saying this, but the FT has provided bloody excellent coverage of the coronavirus crisis
..

I agree I found quite a few interesting articles in the FT which seem well written and inciteful.

 

[deeyo]

Coronavirus: What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?

Swedish healthcare is under scrutiny over the high rate of Covid-19 deaths in care homes.

www.bbc.co.uk

the bbcs been had.
Apart from being a nurse, Ms löfvenberg sits in the gävleborg county council and in the gävle city council for the right wing/(ex) fash 'sverigedemokraterna' . She's scum.
Gävleborg county, pop 287382, reports 92 dead from corona as of may 20. Suppose all of them were in the care homes ms l was working in 'at the beginning of the pandemic' 'we were told not to send them in' maybe she could have brought that to the health and medicine board shes on, instead of telling the bbc.
The 'private consultant' and 'right wing critic' mikael fjällid is active in 'alternativ för sverige' - a right wing split from the sweden democrats.... (speaking at an election meeting in a youtube clip, google if you want to.)
'Increasing number of workers ' 'coming forward to criticise' and bbcs maddy savage happened to interview two fash and a paramedic who wanted to remain anonymous...

Latifa Löfvenberg (@LofvenbergofSwe) on Twitter

Latifa Löfvenberg - Region Gävleborg - förtroendevalda

The Sweden Democrats - Sverigedemokraterna - Radio Sweden

With its anti-immigration stance, the Sweden Democrats was a controversial newcomer to parliament in 2010. The party has fascist and racist roots, but ...

sverigesradio.se

Alternative for Sweden - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The spread of the new coronavirus

Follow the spread of the coronavirus around the world with this graph-based article.

www.svt.se