gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
The list of symptoms is very long.
If you're not getting sunlight, by all accounts you are deficient.
Vitamin D and coronavirus
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
If you're not getting sunlight, by all accounts you are deficient.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
Not really any apart from maybe lethargy and then rickets, which is definitely already well in the danger zone. I got caught while there was a drive to check for D deficiently and was getting my blood tested all the time for other stuff.
Boudicca
Seaside Queen
That's not my experience when it comes to drugs, I find the pharmacist a useful second opinion. I was able to drop one of the many BP pills they were pushing me to take, after talking to the pharmacist and then going back to the GP. But I don't particularly rate my GP, he just likes writing prescriptions.
Another pharmacist sent me to Holland & Barrett to buy B12 as she said theirs was synthetic and H&B was natural, so maybe not. Who knows.
Anyway, I'd probably pay extra to have it in a nice neat pill jar as those blister packs are ridicuously difficult to get into.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I think the Asda own brand ones were a bigger bottle with more tablets, for less money, but they were out of stock. These branded ones being a fiver a packet is why I bought the special offer three packs for a tenner, effectively bringing it down to £3.33 a packet. I just did the sums, the special offer works out at 3.5p a pill, versus just over 5p a pill. I appreciate, though, that spending £10 on vitamins as part of a weekly shop would be tough or out of the question for many people living on a budget.
I'm not one to pay for brand names when it comes to over the counter pharmaceutical stuff, so I spent six quid on 180 capsules of Sainsbury's own brand cod liver oil, with 5 micrograms (dunno how to do the mu) of vitamin D and 400 micrograms of vitamin A.
I take two of those a day, so that's three months' worth, give or take a day.
Can't do any harm and it might even do me a bit of good.
I take two of those a day, so that's three months' worth, give or take a day.
Can't do any harm and it might even do me a bit of good.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
When I went to get tested the first time (and turned out to be severely deficient) it was because I had terrible painful pins and needles sensations in my hands and wrists which were waking me up overnight. My fingers would be swollen and painful and I'd have to shake them out for a few minutes (while in tears, usually). Like carpal tunnel syndrome on steroids. I also had general achey joints/muscles and was really tired all the time. I actually thought I might be anaemic, I only asked the GP to check my vitamin D because I'd changed job a couple of months before and was working in a windowless basement so it seemed like a likely shout.
Do you chew them, then?I like the taste of cod liver oil tablets which is half the reason I take them
I just hoy them down with a swig of water. I can't say that I know what they taste like because they're not in my mouth long enough.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Habitual use of vitamin D supplements and risk of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection: a prospective study in UK Biobank
After adjustment for covariates, the habitual use of vitamin D supplements was significantly associated with a 34% lower risk of COVID-19 inf
academic.oup.com
After adjustment for covariates, the habitual use of vitamin D supplements was significantly associated with a 34% lower risk of COVID-19 inf
Habitual use of vitamin D supplements and risk of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection: a prospective study in UK Biobank
ABSTRACTBackground. Previous studies have related vitamin D supplementation to a lower risk of acute respiratory tract infection. Emerging evidence suggests tha
academic.oup.com
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
While it’s hugely unlikely that you’re taking too much, it’s worth knowing that it is possible to take an excess of the fat soluble vitamins (A D E K) and it can be dangerous.
For instance, excess vitamin D can lead to a build up of calcium, with resulting nausea, vomiting, kidney stones etc. A toxic dose of vitamin A can give you headache and rash at one and if it continues you can end up with skin and hair problems, and in the end chronic high dosage can cause liver damage.
We know excess levels of vitamin A during pregnancy can cause birth defects. This may also be true for excess levels of E and D, and excess K can cause jaundice in new borns. Pregnant women are more likely to be deficient than to carry excess, but they are also more likely to use supplements,
We pee out excess water soluble vitamins but lay down the fat soluble ones in storage.
Most (almost all) people who end up with toxic levels of fat soluble vitamins are taking supplements without proper guidance and without understanding what they’re doing. “Can’t do any harm” is a starting point for this kind of mistake.
Dietary sourced fat soluble vitamins rarely leads to toxic levels, but I see a fair few people who think “if this is good, a lot must be better”.
People with some form of orthorexia are more likely to end up with toxic levels, but I wonder if we’re going to see more of it becasue of the Covid factor,
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Every time someone mentions valerian I pop up with my caveats and qualifiers.
Valerian is not appropriate for all people.
If you find it helpful, that’s great. But it really doesn’t suit everyone. Some people find that it makes them feel monged out and hungover the following day. Some people actually feel restless and agitated on valerian. And it can bring on nightmares for some people, or very vivid dreams.
It is known as the herbal Valium, and like Valium it has its drawbacks.
It was used to treat shell shock, and during the Blitz firefighters used it to enable them to go out night after night.
I think of it as a constitutional herb. So it needs to suit the constitution of the person. In my opinion it’s best used to treat the constitution, or issues arising from the constitution. It’s not especially useful for treating symptoms.
The reason it’s in general use for over the counter sleep mixes is because it’s a heavy hitter, so when it works, you really notice it. (A lot of herbs are quite subtle in their effects, which is why they seem to be so hit-and-miss; night time mixes need to compete with a lot of background noise:TV, screens, wine, kids’ bedtime, the stresses of the working day coming back to haunt as you lay down...)
But anyway. Valerian works for some people but not for all. Can be problematic for a significant number of people.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Since I'm dieting I'm taking a fizzy multivit every day about now and I'm chopping up B12 and D tablets and adding those every other day - so I'm getting 250ug of B12 and 1250 IU of D3 daily - no point in wasting them.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
One of the things that gets lost in all this is the importance of taking things together.
In order to properly absorb and utilise micronutrients, we often need to take them alongside other things. So iron is best absorbed in the presence of vitamin C, we need calcium and magnesium to work together in the correct ratios etc.
Vitamin D and vitamin K work together as a team to regulate the movement of calcium to and fro the bones and the blood etc.
Whether, to what extent and how K is involved with the D story with respect to Covid is still unclear.
Vitamin D3 and K2 and their potential contribution to reducing the COVID-19 mortality rate - PMC
Vitamin D serum levels above 35 ng/mL seem to correlate with the mortality rate of COVID-19 patients. The majority of the Western population is deficient in Vitamin D. Vitamin D3 supplementation also requires additional vitamin K2 intake. The ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Vitamin D – contrary to vitamin K – does not associate with clinical outcome in hospitalized COVID-19 patients
SARS-CoV-2 causes remarkably variable disease from asymptomatic individuals to respiratory insufficiency and coagulopathy. Vitamin K deficiency was recently found to associate with clinical outcome in a cohort of COVID-19 patients. Vitamin D has been hypothesized to reduce disease susceptibility...
Vitamin K deficiency pegged as “potential missing link” in COVID-19 pathogenesis
08 Oct 2020 --- A new Kappa Bioscience-funded <a href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/C3E7267D0D19B048E1D8AB9D83754CFC/S0007114520003979a.pdf/%0bvitamin_k_metabolism_as_the_potential_missing_link_between_lung_damage_and_thromboembolism_in_covid19.pdf"...
Vitamin K metabolism as the potential missing link between lung damage and thromboembolism in Coronavirus disease 2019 | British Journal of Nutrition | Cambridge Core
Vitamin K metabolism as the potential missing link between lung damage and thromboembolism in Coronavirus disease 2019 - Volume 126 Issue 2
Review suggests vitamin K as potential 'missing link' in COVID-19
A new review presents vitamin K metabolism as the potential missing link between lung damage and thromboembolism, two of the most serious outcomes observed in COVID-19 patients.
Please, no one jump on me about the quality of these links or studies. I admit that I've not actually read them. I've just chosen a few from lay person to research journal and slung them up here to illustrate that this is a current topic for debate, research, study. I’m making no claims, I have no agenda, beyond sharing the fact that Vitamin K is now under discussion in this question of how vitamin D may help in our efforts against Covid.
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
That's intresting. Luckily it does work for me. When my mental health has been much poorer I might as well not bother.
What I found totally awful was Sominex. It left me in a truely foul mood the next day. It would actually be better to take real benzos.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Issues with sleep are hugely complicated. I often say that insomnia /sleep issues are the expression of other factors. Insomnia is a symptom. It’s not the problem, although it is the clinical /symptomatic expression of the problem.
It could be physical tension, emotional stress, anxiety, hormonal problems, neurological issues, issues elsewhere in the body (the TCM model says that different organs can be mapped around a clock * and a problem in an organ can cause wakefulness) or a bunch of other stuff.
So when someone says to me that they can’t sleep, my first question - or the framework for a series of questions - is “What’s keeping you awake?”.
Fortunately, plants are very different one from another even when they have broad similarities in common, so we can choose from a huge range of herbs.
At the most basic level, you’d never consider ginger or cayenne as a sleep aid. You don’t need science or tradition to tell you that, merely common sense. (Although..,.. when you think of the too tired to sleep ** thing, it can sometimes be useful to give some kind of stimulant in order to achieve just enough wherewithal for them to acutally go to sleep.... but ginger and cayenne don’t fall into this category).
More finesse can be applied (just like in cooking... the smell and taste of aniseed is different to star anise, but you need experience to know that. Black beans are different to butter beans. On one level, they’re both just pulses, so what’s the difference? But an experienced cook will know.) So while we have a huge range of herbs that might be used to help someone fall asleep, it takes knowledge and experience to choose the right herb for the individual. Some herbs have a pretty wide range of application (chamomile, for instance, although it doesnt work for all) but for some people you need to pick the exactly right herb.
One of the reasons people say that herbal medicine doesn’t work is that they’re not applying/using it properly. It’s not a like-for-like swap from pharmaceuticals to herbs. They’re really different. They each have their place but they’re not directly comparable and it’s a mistake to try to do that.
*
TCM organ clock, if you want to look it up. I know plenty of people will dismiss this idea out of hand, and that’s okay. But even if you don’t give any credence to this model, we have good solid hard core evidence of inherent biological clocks and circadian rhythms, from the macro level (day/night and the 23-25 hour natural wake-sleep cycle that we’ve all messed about with via long haul travel, staying up too late etc) right down to the clock inside the nucleus of every cell. Separated isolated cardiac cells will continue to beat in rhythm if kept alive, and once they are allowed to be in touch with other cardiac cells, all of them will synchronise with the rhythm of nearby cardiac cells in a Petri dish, without any exterior cue. There’s a clock in the cell that’s unique to cardiac cells, it’s not just the Bundle of His that’s making the heart beat, every single cell is beating because of internal processes. We know the stomach takes 4 hours to empty after filling; the kidneys exhibit circadian rhythms, so does the liver, and we know (now that we’ve found it) that the lymphatic drainage system from the brain operates at night, not during the day. How does biological tissue know how to measure the passage of time? We know, roughly, how they do it, and we know, roughly, why they do it. But how do cells, tissue, organs, systems, know that it can be done, how does it know to do it at all? The answer, at least in part, is that these processes evolved on a planet that experiences diurnal light rhythms. Anyway, this is getting me away from my point, which is that the TCM clock may be a way to describe and evaluate these innate rhythms as they were observed and categorised thousands of years ago. But also, it seems to me that if we can identify, observe, describe and explain the circadian rhythms expressed in the centre of the cell, right the way up through the tissue and the organs to the day-night behaviour of individuals and crowds/cities, it’s likely that science will one day be able to support the idea that different organs can be mapped around the 24 hour clock.
Here’s a paper that considers the factors in the different models.
NB I’m not suggesting the paper is true or even valid, I’m only posting it to illustrate that this discussion is happening, it’s not just in my head.
Human biological rhythm in traditional Chinese medicine
Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) has a comprehensive and thorough understanding of biological rhythm. Biological rhythm is an inherent connotation o…
Caveats and qualifiers etc forever.
I’m not saying this is true. I’m not pushing an agenda, I’m saying that I find this interesting. Personally,I find that it can be useful to consider different models and how they may overlap.
**
Too tired to sleep.... not everyone has observed or experienced this, but anyone who has will know exactly what I’m talking about. Not going to post links, I’m sure your google is as good as mine for finding more about this (just use the term too tired to sleep and ,lads comes back. It’s colloquial but there is also biology and proper grown up science going on too.
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Boudicca said:
That's what festivaldeb here was told as well. She was diagnosed with Vit-B deficiency last year by our doctor friend (Dt Aboud is a medically-qualified refugee from Syria, who isn't far from working for the NHS now, after various medical and English exams
).Deb swears by the B12s from H & B -- they improved her wellbeing and health hugely.
two sheds said:
We have Flax Seed Oil tablets (vegetarian version), also from Holland and Barrett, they're supposed to have the same effect as cod-liver oil, but it was festivaldeb not not me who did the online checking, so I just went with her recommendation!
Likewise -- or more often with my breakfast orange juice
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
I used valerian once. I was getting really poor quality sleep and it worked, I slept like a log, but crashed the car the next morning on the way to work.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I was really thick headed and still impaired by the valerian. I doubt it would have happened otherwise
petee
no gods, no malarkey
i too was taking D on doctor's orders (before the coronavirus) after he saw my bloods. i took/take 400IU/day, which is just 50% of the RDA. and it worked: at my last annual i was back within range.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Yes, I can believe that.
Plant based remedies are complex and nuanced. And as your story illustates it’s easy to get it wrong, or just not know stuff.
Which is why I always advise people to go talk to a fully qualified herbalist rather than try to self prescribe. There is a great deal that can be achieved at home (your kitchen is a medicine cabinet) but unless you know what you're doing it makes sense to talk to someone who’s studied it properly.
Same as how we all have some basic understanding about how to use pharmaceuticals (e.g painkillers, cold remedies...) and some people have a great deal more know-how than others (because of ongoing prescriptions, recreational use or just pure interest) but we all recognise that there is a point at which we need to apply to a pharmacist or a GP to check our understanding and maybe hand over the reins.
And we’re all becoming more knowledge about all sorts of stuff as a result of Covid (like vitamin D) but there will still be great gaps in our understanding unless we actually study it.
Same with plant based remedies and herbalists.
There are some really good lay herbalists but there’s no reliable way to determine which are the good ones and which are not, unless you already have a body of knowledge sufficient to make that judgment yourself.
So I’d always advise that people go see a fully qualified herbal practitioner, who has the proper qualifications, is insured, is governed by ethical guidelines laid out by their professional association, etc and so forth.
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
It was only one teabag. Maybe I shouldn't have plugged it
