Sweden and coronavirus

[MrCurry]

Restaurant tables reduced to 4 seats max (from 8). No alcohol sales after 8pm and for the first time, folkhälsomyndigheten are recommending face masks, but only on public transport. Also high school kids fo study from home until end of Jan.

Still seems like baby steps to me. It’s not exactly a lockdown.

 

[girasol]

Am I right in thinking that the countries with lowest death rates closed or heavily restricted their borders? (NZ, South Korea, Japan).

 

[MrCurry]

Whoops

BA doing their bit for international relations and infection control by landing a flight at Arlanda airport and discharging 29 passengers into Sweden today, ignoring the fact there’s a total flight ban in force.

Swedish newspaper article (in Swedish)

Brittiskt plan har landat i Sverige – myndigheter rasar

Det muterade coronaviruset fick Sverige att införa ett totalförbud för flygtrafik från Storbritannien till Sverige. Något som British Airways bröt i dag – när e

www.aftonbladet.se

Rough translation - British Airways flight landed today at Arlanda and border police allowed the 29 passengers to enter the country as they have right of residence. Infection control doctors informed but no one knows whether the passengers are quarantined and they’re under no compulsion to do so or to get themselves tested.

The Swedes are going fruit loopy and blaming BA and the British CAA for clearing the flight plan. Will doubtless lead to recriminations in the coming days.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

They've blocked the border from Denmark. I think that was to avoid Copenhageners coming over to shop (we've shut all shops apart from supermarkets and pharmacies) or from holidaying there for Xmas. There is no real restrictions otherwise. Yeah alcohol sales, which is already enforced by the nanny state anyway.

 

[tony.c]

First covid variant case confirmed in Sweden. A Swedish national returning from UK.

Caanda, Sweden and Spain become latest countries to report new coronavirus variant

They join Japan, Denmark, Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore and France in detecting highly contagious new version of bug – believed to have emerged in UK

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MrCurry]

The mistaken BA flight will no doubt cause ructions, but it’s all a bit pointless as their citizens (and non citizens with residence status in Sweden) are still allowed to travel home from the U.K. as long as they take an indirect route, which just increases their travel time and chances of picking up the virus enroute and does nothing to lessen the chance that they bring the virus with them from the U.K. end.

Without total travel bans with all borders closed you can’t stop this illness crossing borders, as we’ve all clearly seen during the course of this year.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

the problem when you try to control a real thing with an imaginary thing it doesnt work.

 

[platinumsage]

Without total travel bans with all borders closed you can’t stop this illness crossing borders, as we’ve all clearly seen during the course of this year.

China, Taiwan etc don't have total travel bans. Just mandatory detention and quarantine on arrival with testing etc. It's not rocket science really, but seems beyond the capability of most countries to organise, despite the plethora of empty hotels immediately adjacent to all major airports.

It's the "enter the country but wherever you stay, please remember to self-isolate" which is a total nonsense.

 

[elbows]

China, Taiwan etc don't have total travel bans. Just mandatory detention and quarantine on arrival with testing etc. It's not rocket science really, but seems beyond the capability of most countries to organise, despite the plethora of empty hotels immediately adjacent to all major airports.

It's the "enter the country but wherever you stay, please remember to self-isolate" which is a total nonsense.

Its not just a question of countries ability to organise it, its also a question of will. And some of that is related to globalisation and neoliberalism, in the same way that in the early days the WHO were against border closures and were more interested in talking about their partnership with the world tourism board.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

If you want to see stupid authoritarian control. Try sweden. Now the police at the borders dress like this. As long as your passport is valid and you don't look downs syndrome you are safe.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Despite, almost a year of fuck all effort. They get to enforce hardcore boners about shit like checking passports. Useless ShitCunts.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

im pretty fucked off with the stupidness at play in Sweden. And its getting to my head. Like, I'm staying in today cos I dont want to get arrested kind of fucking twisting head bullshit.

Denmark, where I am, have requested a proof of negative covid test for entry into Denmark.
Sweden, where my girlfriend is. Want evidence of covid symptoms before allowing a test.
Otherwise its 2000 krona (200quid) for a private test.

Here, you apply for a test and get a time and go to a big tent and there are no massive queues.

You get a response on your citizen email in 2 days and provable to border pigs.

Sweden have banned entry to Danes who do not live in Sweden.
And the reason its doing my nut in?
Cos of my work. And the response everywhere is so illogical, you have a virus outbreak. You are forced to take a network down. You scan every computer before allowing it to rejoin. So either there isn't a virus outbreak and this is merely a crisis management test. Or, they really have no fucking clue what they are doing.

Uncomfortable as it may be, its one of the above.

 

[elbows]

Finally crawling forwards on this front:

In Sweden a new law has come into force, giving ministers the power to close venues including shops, gyms and cinemas for the first time since the start of the pandemic.

The measures were voted through parliament in Stockholm on Friday, after politicians were called back early from their Christmas break.

From 14:19 entry of BBC live updates page https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55605009

 

[2hats]

Source: @zorinaq

 

[frogwoman]

What happened in 1931? And 1990 for that matter

 

[frogwoman]

Quite surprised that WW1 and 2 didn't lead to that many deaths

 

[cupid_stunt]

Quite surprised that WW1 and 2 didn't lead to that many deaths

I don't think Sweden got involved in the world wars.

 

[elbows]

What happened in 1931? And 1990 for that matter

1990 doesnt stick out in those charts, which year did you mean? 1988? I dont have the right knowledge about Sweden to say. I know there was a nasty flu epidemic in the UK in winter 1989/90:

1989–1990 flu epidemic in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the effects of the 1989 flu outbreak was an increase in the use of flu vaccinations in the UK. Speaking in 2008, Professor John Oxford, an expert in virology at London's Queen Mary's School of Medicine and Dentistry, described the 1989 epidemic as having "caught everyone a bit off guard".[9]

An article in The Independent newspaper from November 1993 reported that between 19,000 and 25,000 deaths in the United Kingdom were attributed to the 1989–90 flu outbreak,[10] while later reports have suggested the figure to be in the region of 26,000.[11][12] Sources have reported an infection rate of between 534 and 600 cases per 100,000 at its peak.[13][14] In July 2009, at the time of the swine flu outbreak, the Western Mail quoted a figure of 29,169 deaths for the 1989 epidemic, and noted its relatively low public profile. Dr Roland Salmon, director of the communicable disease surveillance centre of the National Public Health Service for Wales, observed that "few people have a marked recollection of 1989 as a year of Biblical carnage".

Sometimes I look at these historical epidemics and I look at the state of our knowledge and surveillance of such things, and I wonder whether, if any of them had actually involved one of the other human coronaviruses, we'd even have noticed that flu wasnt the only thing doing the damage then!

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

They are neutral. They only supply the weapons

 

[frogwoman]

Supposedly this year has the highest deaths since 1931, I just wondered if anything happened in Sweden then. I know there was a famine there in the 19th century.

 

[elbows]

Supposedly this year has the highest deaths since 1931, I just wondered if anything happened in Sweden then. I know there was a famine there in the 19th century.

I found a reference to 1931 in Sweden:

The ghost of pandemics past: revisiting two centuries of influenza in Sweden | Medical Humanities

mh.bmj.com

In the years after 1920, influenza returned each season with varying strength, with 1922, 1927, 1931 and 1937 being exceptionally severe seasons.

 

[elbows]

That relates to one of the things that annoys me about how humanity treats influenza pandemics. Most of the emphasis is on counting the initial waves of death from novel viruses that come along and cause a pandemic. But with influenza those strains then hang around for years, in gradually altering form, until eventually they are usually displaced by a subsequent pandemic. I'd rather count all the horrible seasonal epidemics as part of those totals too, eg the 1918 H1N1 influuenza wave totals plus the sorts of years they mention there where it came back as epidemics. And the same for the H3N2 which arrived in the 1968 pandemic and still causes epidemic years with high levels of death. And thats still around now, since the 2009 swine flu didnt displace it.

 

[frogwoman]

It would be good for monitoring if after the pandemic you could carry on getting nose swab tests for other viruses like flu. Do you think that will happen?

 

[elbows]

It would be good for monitoring if after the pandemic you could carry on getting nose swab tests for other viruses like flu. Do you think that will happen?

The likes of Hancock have said that the large diagnostics setup we now have, that we didnt have before, will be used for other things in future, yes. Quite what form that takes we shall have to see. They have the capacity now and and are bound to use if for something when its not needed for Covid (if there comes such a time). I've certain said before that I am pleased by that, since I certainly spent enough time moaning about inadequate diagnostics and disease surveillance traditions in the UK. I mean some of the alternative ways we've developed over decades to monitor things via various forms of sampling, sentinel surveillance etc are actually quite impressive in their own way, and remain a useful part things. I just didnt like relying on those things alone for disease surveillance, and not bothering with massive scale diagnostics of all patients etc. Both for the sake of understanding the development of each epidemic, and for the benefit of each individual infected in terms of treatment, less guesswork and more certainty, enabling more 'doing the right thing isolation/go off sick' etc etc. Less assumptions that are prone to fail, less spreading opportunities.

 

[frogwoman]

A few years abo when i was ill I went to the doctor after being sent home from work, who took my temperature and felt my glands etc and told me instantly that I had flu. I don't think she was wearing a mask though. I'm wondering whether there could be a PCR for flu and the cold causing coronas like OC43 etc so that it could identify stuff like a different strain spreading in the population or more serious diseases more easily. Supposedly coronaviruses can 'recombine' in some situations if two viruses are in the same patient too.

 

[2hats]

Seems like the right thread.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Alrite, who’s not been social distancing from lions and tigers?

 

[deeyo]

Seems like the right thread.

if this is true it's gone completely unnoticed so far. nothing in the news, or on the sva's homepage or social media (sva - statens veterinärmedicinska anstalt - national veterinary institute). the guy mentioned, karl ståhl, is real, though.

https://www.sva.se/forskare/karl-stahl/

i'll mail him and ask.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

This is true. In sweden you still!!! cannot get tested unless you have clear symptoms. On a disease that is often symptomless.
If you want a test and do not have symptoms, it costs 2000 krona (about 200 quid). They are at over half a million infections on a population of 10 million. Wonder why.

 

[deeyo]

Seems like the right thread.

ok, so it's true. got a reply at about the same time that it hit all the mainstream news. he even thanked me, so maybe i gave him a heads-up ..

good catch.