student scabs

[dennisr]

Dennisr asked me earlier how I would increase solidarity

Here are some ideas

I'll try and find a wee bit of time to reply in more detail later but, regarding the general list - I am afraid it sounds like nothing much new to me - more going backwards (as you would accuse others of..). I'd like you to clarify where this is 'new thinking' on the matter?

Funnily enough - take away the window dressing and a lot of the suggestions are a version of the present right-wing in the trade unions arguements and policies in practice - the very people who have done so much to depolitise and deactivate the membership trying to turn the unions into some sort of 'mutual benefit society' without the basic trade union principles. Not that I am again 'mutual benefit' but it is not a replacement for defending rights and conditions.

Were unions have stood behind and even initiated campaigns for members - that is where those members have responded and new members have decided to join. You seem to have it all arse over tit mate because you are starting from the premise of blaming the 'left' - ironically, your developing views probably shows quite well the trajectory that plenty of union bureaucrats have followed before you.

Some of the ideas are OK though

 

[nino_savatte]

A campaigning slogan dreamed up by the NUS to oppose the changes in the 80's was "Good Grief Keith" - not very political at all.

That's the NUS leadership for you.

 

[Urbanblues]

Look mum - no le.................................argh....

you wouldn't be able to go to work if you carn't walk would you?

Really? Could you explain the relationship between being able to go to work, and walking? Cos, it seems I’m contradicting some physical law or other, whenever I go to work, without walking. Maybe, I’m up to me neck in it, innit; dee Nile, that is.

 

[joer90]

strange thet since my work place has been holding union meetings with 250 plus.seems your union branch is shit? maybe because of wankers like yourself? when talking about the single bigest strike for ages all you can do is excuse the scabs? all these things are ading up dont you think? if your not up for it then your dead wood so FUCK OFF! we dont want you and dont need you! all this is very boring to me get out there and organize you slab of shite.... know the score class war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KeyboardJockey]

strange thet since my work place has been holding union meetings with 250 plus.seems your union branch is shit? maybe because of wankers like yourself? when talking about the single bigest strike for ages all you can do is excuse the scabs? all these things are ading up dont you think? if your not up for it then your dead wood so FUCK OFF! we dont want you and dont need you! all this is very boring to me get out there and organize you slab of shite.... know the score class war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ooooh hark at the plastic revolutionary at it again

Your workplace sounds EXTREMELY unusual. What industry is it you work in by the way?

 

[october_lost]

You can't intimidate people into solidarity you can only educate them.

I think in reality you will need both, solidarity is all well and good but there will always be scabs.

 

[poster342002]

strange thet since my work place has been holding union meetings with 250 plus.

Sorry - but that's the exception and not the rule in my experience. In my working life, we're lucky to get 20 people to come to a union meeting (half of which will doze off or leave before the end). A further quarter will just be a bit ... strange - and make incoherent or irrelevant comments and questions during the meeting. That leaves a rump of one qaurter out of around 20 people who are taking it seriously.

 

[joer90]

i'm a printer and good union branch's take a lot of organizeing and good trade union polotics something i'm afraid some of you lot clearly lack you make excuses for scabs! the lowest form of life and put down anybody involved in strugle don't moan so much and organize you miserable cunts!!

 

[tbaldwin]

i'm not depressed mate (try reading what is actually written)

quick joke answer - because the world is full of moronic cunts like you?

Looks like you have a couple of mutual friends - you v=can sit around and do nothing with some mates now

quick joke answer....beats trying to sell a paper nobdoy wants to read.

Met up with a couple of old mates last night all of us involved in the 90s. One of them was actually thinking of joining the SP!!!!!!!!!!!!
I said that i thought the days of top down left sects was well and truly over.
My other mate agreed. But he's probably a moron as well.....

 

[nino_savatte]

I said that i thought the days of top down left sects was well and truly over.

Really? Is that why you subscribe to topdownism? You are a self-styled "authoritarian socialist" are you not?

I think your story is rather apocryphal tbh.

 

[poster342002]

scabs! the lowest form of life

So what would you say to a workplace where the vast majoirty of members habitually scab during any and every strike ever called? Because you'd be the one in the minority, standing outside your workplace yelling "scab!" at the 80% of people merrily strolling in as usual.

I actually hate this fact of life, but NOBODY is coming up with any way of rectifying it.

 

[dennisr]

My other mate agreed. But he's probably a moron as well.....

probably

 

[KeyboardJockey]

i'm a printer and good union branch's take a lot of organizeing

Hmmmm I saw the bad side of the print industry when I worked as a photojournalist in the 80's with stupid demarcation disputes which drove freelancers like me away from trade unionism.

Agree that an effective branch takes organising it also needs to be pitched to involve people. So many people have refused to attend union meetings as they are 'too political' or 'boring' or 'not relevant' or any other reasons.

A lot of my colleauges on the photography and journalism side of the press refused to back the Wapping strike as we were alienated from the activities of the print unions.

and good trade union polotics something i'm afraid some of you lot clearly lack you make excuses for scabs! the lowest form of life

Some people will not support strikes on principle as they don't believe in them or are happy with their work situation, some people can't afford to lose a days pay, some people as poster said are too engaged with the aspirational treadmillism to support strikes etc etc. To make blanket statements about scabs being the lowest form of life alienates those who may be peacefully persuaded to back strikes in the future.

and put down anybody involved in strugle don't moan so much and organize you miserable cunts!!

I'm trying to organise at the moment but it is difficult as my place is so demoralised by cuts. I thnk the only way I'm going to get people through the doors of a branch meeting is to bribe them with entertainment.

I've scabbed in two strikes recently in my workplace and my reasons were
1) why strike if hardly any fucker is going to strike with you
2) If at the time I'd lost a days money I'd have had to go to a loan shark to make up the lost money.

If you are going to put your members through hardship you need to have a damn good plan for action and also support for members and some confidence that you might win.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

So what would you say to a workplace where the vast majoirty of members habitually scab during any and every strike ever called? Because you'd be the one in the minority, standing outside your workplace yelling "scab!" at the 80% of people merrily strolling in as usual.

I actually hate this fact of life, but NOBODY is coming up with any way of rectifying it.

Well I made some suggestions at getting people more involved. Its pointless calling strikes if there isn't the backing of members.

Agree with your first para comment as well

 

[joer90]

again you make excuses for scabing there is no reason to make excuses if your colleges didn't support the wapping dispute then they were shit trade unionists and coudn't see it as part of the wider attack on british trade unionism in the 1980's which has left workers in britain in the weaker state we now find ourselves in! what you and some other fools on here are moaning about! as ive said before get out there and organize stop moaning and critisizeing and excuzeing scabs

 

[KeyboardJockey]

again you make excuses for scabing there is no reason to make excuses if your colleges didn't support the wapping dispute then they were shit trade unionists and coudn't see it as part of the wider attack on british trade unionism in the 1980's which has left workers in britain in the weaker state we now find ourselves in! what you and some other fools on here are moaning about! as ive said before get out there and organize stop moaning and critisizeing and excuzeing scabs

FFS talk about not listening

I'm not excusing scabbing more giving reasons for it which if you listened might make future actions more effective.

Yes I know that the Wapping strike was part of the attack on trade unionism which is why Murdoch and the Govt picked on a undeniably unpopular group of workers to give a victory which would be accepted by most people.

Maybe if unions had seen how society had been going with the increase in indivudualism they wouldn't have been so outmanouvered and may have looked at ways of action that were effective.

If I was you I'd junk the dogma and look at why unions exist only in small sectors of the working communty. For those of us on the ground 20 odd years of heroic failure has left us bereft of support in the workplace.

 

[audiotech]

When I was being battered by the police in Warrington, opposing Eddie Shah's union busting tactics you will have been taking pics then as a 'freelance photojournalist'?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

When I was being battered by the police in Warrington, opposing Eddie Shah's union busting tactics you will have been taking pics then as a 'freelance photojournalist'?

Nah! didn't cover Warrington did mostly Southern England work. In that game a jobs a job most of the time. You are not there to make moral judgements you are there to provide images.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

When I was being battered by the police in Warrington, opposing Eddie Shah's union busting tactics you will have been taking pics then as a 'freelance photojournalist'?

To add:

Although I didn't agree with the tactics of Shah and Murdoch I found the printworkers restrictive practices a tad annoying at times. The time this was brought home to me was the fact that journalistic staff were forbidden by NGA / SOGAT dictat from operating a wire machine something which for younger readers is likea glorified fax machine.

 

[audiotech]

To add:

Although I didn't agree with the tactics of Shah and Murdoch I found the printworkers restrictive practices a tad annoying at times. The time this was brought home to me was the fact that journalistic staff were forbidden by NGA / SOGAT dictat from operating a wire machine something which for younger readers is likea glorified fax machine.

Annoying perhaps, but the printers never had the power that Shah and Murdoch demonstrated - supported by the state too.

 

[audiotech]

Nah! didn't cover Warrington did mostly Southern England work. In that game a jobs a job most of the time. You are not there to make moral judgements you are there to provide images.

Don't tell me, you've photographed a dead child in some war-torn country holding a teddy bear the newspaper provided?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Annoying perhaps, but the printers never had the power that Shah and Murdoch demonstrated - supported by the state too.

Maybe if the print unions had been more accepting of new technology the situation would have been different. Like I say I never agreed with Murdoch and I saw the fear that his name engendered in the staffs of some of the Aussie papers I worked for.

Agreed that the state ie Thatcher and chums had an interest in the printworkers and the employers coming to blows.

There was to my observation a lot of rancour between journos and printworkers. I defended the printworkers in a lot of conversations with colleauges (I was a naive lefty way back then) until I saw just how arrogant, petty and restrictive they could be.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Don't tell me, you've photographed a dead child in some war-torn country holding a teddy bear the newspaper provided?

No but I did do a fair amount of jobs where I was shut in the back of a motor with a 300mm 2.8 snatching pictures of polticians mistresses. Dont' think I'd have the mindset to do that sort of thing now though but I was tempted when I ran into an old colleauge who said 'fancy coming back?' The temptation lasted all of 15seconds

 

[audiotech]

Maybe if the print unions had been more accepting of new technology the situation would have been different. Like I say I never agreed with Murdoch and I saw the fear that his name engendered in the staffs of some of the Aussie papers I worked for.

Agreed that the state ie Thatcher and chums had an interest in the printworkers and the employers coming to blows.

There was to my observation a lot of rancour between journos and printworkers. I defended the printworkers in a lot of conversations with colleauges (I was a naive lefty way back then) until I saw just how arrogant, petty and restrictive they could be.

Not as arrogant, petty and restrictive as Thatcher and her chums.

 

[audiotech]

No but I did do a fair amount of jobs where I was shut in the back of a motor with a 300mm 2.8 snatching pictures of polticians mistresses.

Mmmm, do tell?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Not as arrogant, petty and restrictive as Thatcher and her chums.

MC5, at the time the print game was overmanned, badly organised, uncompetitve and was due for a reorganisation.

FFS the printworkers shot themselves in the foot and the long term result of that we now have workplaces where either there is no union, or no union worth speaking of or unions that are so divorced from the workforce that they are ignored.

I agree with all that you say about Thatcher though.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Mmmm, do tell?

Do a search the newspaper archives for the period of 87-89 or buy us a pint

 

[Geoff Collier]

I emailed what I thought was John Moore Uni student union to ask for their opinion of students being used as scabs (the agency's Liverpool address is within that student union), The president appears to have no opinion to judge from the answer below

Dear Geoff,

May I introduce myself as President at Liverpool Students’ Union, my name is Jasmin Claydon-Wallace. Thank you for your query regarding the action of students during the Royal Mail Strike in Liverpool. The recruitment agency in question, The Workbank, is an entirely separate entity to Liverpool Students’ Union. We have no authority over which organisations The Workbank are contracted to and cannot prevent students from working with them.

For any additional queries or information please contact The Workbank directly on 0151 2314964 or email: mblackman@theworkbank.co.uk.



Thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter,



Kind regards,



Jasmin Claydon- Wallace

 

[poster342002]

The attitudes on the below-linked thread say fasr better than I could how the notion of workplace resistance and solidarity is terminally fucked:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=226467

THAT is what the majority attitude is in most workplaces.

 

[audiotech]

Crap and not very representative is it?