student scabs
- Thread starter joer90
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poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Yes, I keep on insisting that 2+2=4 rather than 5. Awkward like that, aren't I?dennisr said:
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
And I've reached the conclusion that "those sort" of workplace environments constitute the vast majority in the UK. The trots don't see this becuase they're mainly concentrated in one or two unrepresentative sectors.KeyboardJockey said:
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
poster342002 said:
To be fair though it wasn't always thus. Back in the late 60's / 70's the trots did have a sizable prescene in the motor industry and the building industry.
Now however it is a different story. A cogent example is the PCS where there are a lot of trots and other members of unreprestative left groups in the DWP but less so in other sections of the civil service. Because these groups are more motivated to vote for strike action you find that union members in say mod of dfid are expected to obey strike votes from members in basically one dept which is how it seems to me and those in these depts don't see any relevance to their own work lives of decisions made by workers in DWP.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I think there's a lot of truth in this and it poses an increasingly dangerous situation with regards to that union and that dispute. You've essentially got a whacking great faultline opening up between the DWP (which does seem to strike) and just about every other dept (which seem to routinely do a "nottinghamshire coalmine" act during each one, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by).KeyboardJockey said:
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
dennisr said:
Bean-counting bureaucrat and proud!
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Dennisr asked me earlier how I would increase solidarity
Here are some ideas
1 the idea of monolithic unions is dead. People are far far more comfortable with the idea of choice in areas such as religion, jobs etc etc. It could be said that the old style trade union brotherhood flourished at a time when the idea of monolithic blocs was an acceptable part of society. When most people either attend church or accept that the church is part of society then they are more likely to accept the idea of worker solidarity. For good or ill this time has gone and has been dying since the late 1950's. There has been a trend for unions to amalgamate and this has divorced the average union member from the union structure. Maybe an element of choice should be introduced into union membership. If union A has policies that are shit or not relevant then you can choose to join union B. This would make unions far more responsive to the needs of the members and would probably make more people wish to become involved.
I can't be arsed to vote in PCS elections as it doesn 't seem relevant and doesn't seem to do anything. I think that I could probably achieve more by voting for my local monster raving loony party candidate.
2 Give people some benefit for joining a union.
Give people educational opportunities that they can't get elsewhere or at times which are convenient for the worker.
2a Give members an alternative to the high street savings institutions. Low cost credit / credit union facilities etc etc. Could be a major selling point in the light of the Northern Rock fiasco.
3 Educate people without getting all shouty about union history and what unions have achieved.
4. Communicate more effectively with members. This doesn't mean a glossy mag full to the brim with grinning union officers spouting propaganda.
5. Invest in a network of flying branch inspectors to oversee moribund branches.
6. Give the members a vote every two years on what political party the political fund will support. It might upset the left if workers voted to give money to the tories but hey at least it would be democratic.
7. Look at the idea of microunions small workplace or borough or county based unions that can affiliate to larger unions if they wish but still retain a lot of automomy. This will bring unions back to the worker.
8. Accept that the old style idea of solidarity is dead and some replacement for this will have to be created from scratch. The desire and even the knowledge that solidarity is power has gone from British society and it needs to be replaced.
9 Stop using 19th century language and attitudes. Screaming 'scab' or spouting failed Marxist cliches at people does nothing to endear either the individual worker to a union or the population at large to trade unionism.
10 If there is a dispute then the first thing that needs to be done is to educate people as to why there is a dispute. Not commuicating effectively hands the bosses a victory they havn't earned.
11. Look at trade union history and accept where there has been problems. This includes things such as the block vote at the TUC and labour conferences and the closed shop.
12. Make people think that the union is something relevant to them and make union meetings less of a chore to attend. Bribe people to attend union meetings if necessary otherwise union branches get taken over by those with either a political axe to grind or is run by people dangerously on the edge of burnout.
That should do to be going on with.
Here are some ideas
1 the idea of monolithic unions is dead. People are far far more comfortable with the idea of choice in areas such as religion, jobs etc etc. It could be said that the old style trade union brotherhood flourished at a time when the idea of monolithic blocs was an acceptable part of society. When most people either attend church or accept that the church is part of society then they are more likely to accept the idea of worker solidarity. For good or ill this time has gone and has been dying since the late 1950's. There has been a trend for unions to amalgamate and this has divorced the average union member from the union structure. Maybe an element of choice should be introduced into union membership. If union A has policies that are shit or not relevant then you can choose to join union B. This would make unions far more responsive to the needs of the members and would probably make more people wish to become involved.
I can't be arsed to vote in PCS elections as it doesn 't seem relevant and doesn't seem to do anything. I think that I could probably achieve more by voting for my local monster raving loony party candidate.
2 Give people some benefit for joining a union.
Give people educational opportunities that they can't get elsewhere or at times which are convenient for the worker.
2a Give members an alternative to the high street savings institutions. Low cost credit / credit union facilities etc etc. Could be a major selling point in the light of the Northern Rock fiasco.
3 Educate people without getting all shouty about union history and what unions have achieved.
4. Communicate more effectively with members. This doesn't mean a glossy mag full to the brim with grinning union officers spouting propaganda.
5. Invest in a network of flying branch inspectors to oversee moribund branches.
6. Give the members a vote every two years on what political party the political fund will support. It might upset the left if workers voted to give money to the tories but hey at least it would be democratic.
7. Look at the idea of microunions small workplace or borough or county based unions that can affiliate to larger unions if they wish but still retain a lot of automomy. This will bring unions back to the worker.
8. Accept that the old style idea of solidarity is dead and some replacement for this will have to be created from scratch. The desire and even the knowledge that solidarity is power has gone from British society and it needs to be replaced.
9 Stop using 19th century language and attitudes. Screaming 'scab' or spouting failed Marxist cliches at people does nothing to endear either the individual worker to a union or the population at large to trade unionism.
10 If there is a dispute then the first thing that needs to be done is to educate people as to why there is a dispute. Not commuicating effectively hands the bosses a victory they havn't earned.
11. Look at trade union history and accept where there has been problems. This includes things such as the block vote at the TUC and labour conferences and the closed shop.
12. Make people think that the union is something relevant to them and make union meetings less of a chore to attend. Bribe people to attend union meetings if necessary otherwise union branches get taken over by those with either a political axe to grind or is run by people dangerously on the edge of burnout.
That should do to be going on with.
october_lost
It's not hip any more...
We only have to win onceposter342002 said:
they have to win everydayKeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
october_lost said:We only have to win once
To play the pessimist here October I'd say it was the other way round.
The bosses only have to win once to gain the upper hand whereas the worker has to win everyday.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
treelover said:
I'm thinking more on the lines of credit unions and microcredit and savings facilities. In the wake fo the Northern Rock there could be a return to the idea of mutuality in savings and this is an area that unions could exploit.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
.. and they ARE winning everyday.october_lost said:We only have to win once
Well it seems that the students will have to live with there actions i wouldn't stray too far from the uni bar if i was them.............. the posties are puting up a great fight wakefield came out again 300 of them.Pepole should do some collections at work for there local office that always goes down well keep it boys and girls
!!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the class war news wire at www.classwaruk.org to see some scabs in action funny as fuck
!!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the class war news wire at www.classwaruk.org to see some scabs in action funny as fuckKeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
joer90 said:Well it seems that the students will have to live with there actions i wouldn't stray too far from the uni bar if i was them.............. the posties are puting up a great fight wakefield came out again 300 of them.Pepole should do some collections at work for there local office that always goes down well keep it boys and girls
Ooooh look another plastic revolutionary
. Poster do you see now why the organised left is part of the problem and not the solution. Intimidating 'scabs' is no way to educate people as to the justness of your cause. If this happened to me I would be much more inclined to say 'fuck your union I'm going to work'. You can't intimidate people into solidarity you can only educate them.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
joer90 said:you wouldn't be able to go to work if you carn't walk would you?
That is the type of attitude that puts people off the idea of solidarity / trade unionism and all that goes with it. Like I said plastic revolutionary.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
joer90 said:tell that to a real any real trade unionist and they will laugh in your face you prick
Joe the 'real trade unionists' don't exist in any sort of mass powerful enough to make any difference thats why there is a need for change. 80% of people scabbed in my office and these were union members. That is sadly the majority.
Go and educate yourself about the situation. Fool.
BTW Class War is a spent force with so little support it is meaningless to the majority of people.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
KeyboardJockey said:
And that's the harsh truth that's just not getting through.
I have similar experiences of every single strike also.KeyboardJockey said:
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
poster342002 said:
Everytime these revolutionary fetishists open their mouths they alienate theordinary workers who the unions need to recruit.
dennisr said:
I think the real reason for your depression is that your like a hamster on a wheel going round and round......You really dont want to think about it,do you?
How come Militant have gone from booking the Royal Albert Hall for rallys to the Dog and Duck?
Any ideas yet dennisr???????
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Basically, they're preaching the wrong message to the wrong audience at the wrong time under the wrongest of circumstances. If we were at a stage of national ferment it would be one thing. But we're at the least class-concious period in history - where most people aren't even reformist let alone revolutionary.KeyboardJockey said:
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Coming frome a trot, that's just priceless!dennisr said:
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
poster342002 said:
Spot on! Its like holding a gun the wrong way round and wondering why the enemy is still advancing and you've just blown your own head off.
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